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Thread: new member model 19 questions

  1. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    "The 19's are the first two way speakers I've heard and really liked and I don't detect any "seam" between the woofer and HF driver. To me it sounds like it's all coming from inside the entire box or like a huge single driver... "

    That is music to my ears--"...sounds like... a huge single driver...".

    That info on the crossover is interesting and I did see the posts about the lugs and oxidation.
    To be honest,I am hoping that Mr. Brennan(?) is right and that the model 19 is very turnkey because I would rather just hook 'um up and listen,at least at first.I have a feeling it is going to be a big difference to get used to.
    So I want to get my bearing before I dive into changing things.
    I really think I want to keep them as stock as possible,but I am considering sending the entire crossover and internal wiring off to be replaced or reworked, if I feel it needs it.
    My system is on the warm side,but with tight bass,at least for all tubes.
    I guess I want the speakers to be as clear as possible,but not harsh,but also warmish--I can't seem to get enough warmth as long as it doesn't lurch into soft mush.

    And I am with the guy about the control settings.I, too, want to find the flattest setting,at least at first.

    I do already have an idea about getting the speakers off the floor by a couple of inches for decoupling but to improve stage and imaging and bass.
    Have a feeling it might work well,but will have to see,might not need to bother.Part of my idea is to introduce an ever so slight rake angle backward so as to improve the illusion of stage and image height,which I do like.

    BTW, I saw that a guy on a Klipsch forum has a beautiful pair of 14s for sale.
    I hope to get the finish on mine to look like his.

  2. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Upstate NY
    Wow--thanks Tom! That PDF spells it out pretty clearly. Thanks for the link. According to the PDF, if you keep the treble and midrange controls set to the designated "optimum" settings, you are pretty close to flat (which I had a feeling was probably the case). The "optimum control setting" for the treble control on the 19's is at the portion of the pot's range that approaches the fully clockwise setting--and that's where I've been keeping the treble control on my 19's--fully clockwise. The "optimum control setting" for the midgrange control on the 19's is below the halfway point of the pot--and I've been experimenting with mine from that position and different positions approaching fully clockwise. I noticed with the midrange control rotated fully clockwise that the vocals in particular (midrange) on some of my rock recordings become too "in your face" and I suspected the designated optimum range was more of a flat setting. It's nice to see that the actual curve provided by Altec corroborates my observations.

    As Dave V. says, not many people listen to flat--and I'm no exception. I have always set my EQ by ear as I'm sure pretty much everyone does--what other (bottom line) criteria is important other than how does it sound to your ears in your room? I do add some treble (16k and up in particular) and some bass (starting at 100hz down to about 30hz) for the Model 19's (with my Alesis Equalizer) and now that I'm looking at the PDF I can see those are the areas where the response dips on the Model 19's...

    What I really like about the Model 19's is that with minumum EQ they sound just plain amazing. I also own a pair of 846A Valencias and a pair of Heathkit AS 101's which both sound great, but require that I add more high end equalization to them to get them to sound almost as good as the 19's....

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    SC near Augusta, GA

    Model 19 EQ and 806/802G HF

    It sounds like your doing almost the same thing as I am in the way of EQ with the 19's and with the same results but I'm using my Mac C-22 preamp for the EQ.
    I have the bass trim pots turned up not quite halfway to give some boost under 100HZ only and I'm using one detent click of HF boost that represents about 4db of boost at 20KHZ but the slope going up to 20KHZ is very gentle so the mids aren't dragged up too much as a result.

    I have the bass controls set to flat because I find at one detent click or about 4db of boost is a bit too much for me and that the bass trim pots work out better.

    There was a very long thread, maybe in another forum, about adding tweeters and the high frequency response of the 806 and 802G drivers.
    If I remember correctly the graph of the 806 driver showed that it starts to drop off around 9KHZ so it would need more of a HF boost to sound like the 802G with the compensating network.
    I do find the bass on the 19's to be way better than I got from the Flamencos for whatever reason.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Tom Brennan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    San Antonio
    When I had my 19s I just left the things alone. I didn't rebuild the crossovers despite the urgings of many even though I went so far as to buy the caps. The things sounded so good I just left them alone and listened.

    Now I did putz around with other speakers at the time as I had a large house and several hi-fis; I tinkered with JBLs and other, inferior Altecs, but the 19s were my main speakers and I was content to just let them be. Could they have been better with new caps? Maybe, quite possibly, but I didn't care, they were that good.

    Now that I'm in a high rise all that stuff is gone and I find myself with another pair of "set 'em and forget 'em" speakers, Martin Logan Vistas. I don't think they're as good overall as the 19s but they do the job. Looks like my speaker tinkering days are done.

  5. #20

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    SC near Augusta, GA

    There's the thread

    Thanks Zilch. I swear the brain farts get longer for every year I get older.
    That thread was here after all. LOL

    After all the experimenting I did in adding tweeters to the 19's I looked elsewhere for a lack of highs because people were saying the 19's weren't all that bad.

    I reworked all the solder joints in my preamp, cleaned the tube sockets and tube pins and flooded the heck out of all the switches and pots with alcohol, contact cleaner then DeOxit.
    Seems that something got corrected because I abandoned the tweeters and now the 4db of treble boost at 20KHZ is sufficient.


  7. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Upstate NY
    QUOTING ZILCH "I believe I'd be concentrating my efforts instead upon working to make the stock crossover produce its best possible performance result while also retaining the Model 19 voice...."

    I totally agree--the stock crossover sounds great with the stock drivers/cabinet/port size--I'm definately not replacing mine. There are posts on this board about replacing the stock crossover caps on the 19's since they are about 30 years old now. There's also a recent post about connecting the four crossover ground lugs to each other with good copper wire the idea being that four good solder/wire connections will ground it better than just four riveted connections. Both of these "upgrades" seem like a good start at "working to make the stock crossover produce its best possible performance result while also retaining the Model 19 voice...." If/when I decide to tinker with my Model 19's, that is probably where I'll start....

  8. #23
    Junior Member Cosmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    One other thing that should be explored if using stock(original xo) is that the grounding lugs should be bypassed by direct wiring the grounds with wire.After replacing the caps and resistors.Just solder wire from ground lug to ground lug bypassing the lugs they are only riveted to the alum.frame and can oxidize between them.You will get much better performance with this simple step.

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