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Thread: JBL Performance Series AV2

  1. #31
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    Update

    After spending some time with the AV2, I am more impressed with its performance than I expected. What I expected was a good interim solution.

    What I got was a better than expected performer whose attributes fit seamlessly with my Oppo BDP-83SE. Its analog output on dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio is very, very, very, very nice.

    I could not be more pleased, especially at the excellent price that is currently available through authorized dealers. There isn't anything out there that can touch it in its current price range.

    happy happy happy happy
    Out.

  2. #32
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    ... which likely says a lot about the transparency of the Synthesis gear
    downstream from the AV2 as well. Very happy for you.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    ... which likely says a lot about the transparency of the Synthesis gear
    downstream from the AV2 as well. Very happy for you.
    Yes, though that seems counterintuitive. Most of the posters over in the SSP and in the Oppo BDP-83SE threads at AVS are highly opinionated against any downstream A/D/A conversions.

    I must say with lesser gear I might be able to see the "logic of their belief," though they generally only have strongly held opinions based on having listened--with preconceptions, no doubt--to one or two systems that did downstream A/D/A. However, the logic of their belief doesn't bear up in the real world as a universal truth. It's a sometimes truth.

    Those darn SDEC units are truly wonderful. It's no wonder they are the single most expensive part of any Synthesis® system, except in the Everest Synthesis®, where the Everest II speaker actually costs more.
    Out.

  4. #34
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    Two Channel, Part 1

    In another thread valentin asked about two channel usage and comments. I'll address them here to keep most of the AV2 info in one place.

    I like MCH sound. I play almost everything in MCH, including standard CDs, because they frequently and comparatively sound thin, flat, and lifeless to me in regular two channel.

    However, stereo is still a big part of my life when I'm in the office, as my three office set ups are all stereo rigs: L7, L250, or 4430 + B380. Of course my offices are small, except for the one containing the 4430s, which is why the B380 is added.

    At home in the HT, things are pretty good for two channel listening, but obviously are optimized for MCH sound and not stereo. If I were using the SAMs for stereo duty, they'd be in a different location and they'd probably be on top of the S1S-EX subs.

    I cannot make a useful comparison to my traditional two channel set ups, because those speakers are set up for optimal two channel reproduction. However, I can make some comparisons with the SDP-5's two channel performance compared to the AV2 in the same system in the same room.
    Out.

  5. #35
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    Two Channel, Part 2

    The original SDP-5 set up with an Oppo DV-981HD did a passable job with two channel sound, but that's all. Of course that Oppo player was built to be a great video and digital MCH transport, so that's not a big surprise.

    When I replaced it with the Oppo BDP-83, things improved a bit, but not so much that I listened to two channel playback any more often. When I upgraded to the BDP-83SE with its superior analog section and exceptional two channel output, things changed a bit.

    I actually found myself wanting to hear some music solely in two channel again. The SDP-5 seemed to handicap this a bit with its sometimes arcane input selection and assignment process, and sometimes it would reset inputs without my involvement.

    This tended to tick me off, as I'd listen to something and find myself disappointed with the sound. Then I'd think maybe I had been a victim of placebo effect, only to discover the darn unit had changed the input configuration to something wacky like DTS: Neo6.

    This kind of strange behavior was another motivator (among those already mentioned) for seeking a replacement unit, which led me to the AV2.

    Fortunately, I had some time to spend with the Oppo BDP-83SE and the SDP-5 before the AV2 arrived, and I kept both of them connected and in the rack for many weeks to do side-by-side analysis.
    Out.

  6. #36
    JBL 4645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    The original SDP-5 set up with an Oppo DV-981HD did a passable job with two channel sound, but that's all. Of course that Oppo player was built to be a great video and digital MCH transport, so that's not a big surprise.

    When I replaced it with the Oppo BDP-83, things improved a bit, but not so much that I listened to two channel playback any more often. When I upgraded to the BDP-83SE with its superior analog section and exceptional two channel output, things changed a bit.

    I actually found myself wanting to hear some music solely in two channel again. The SDP-5 seemed to handicap this a bit with its sometimes arcane input selection and assignment process, and sometimes it would reset inputs without my involvement.

    This tended to tock me off, as I'd listen to something and find myself disappointed with the sound. Then I'd think maybe I had been a victim of placebo effect, only to discover the darn unit had change the input configuration to something wacky like DTS: Neo6.

    This kind of strange behavior was another motivator (among those already mentioned) for seeking a replacement unit, which led me to the AV2.

    Fortunately, I had some time to spend with the Oppo BDP-83SE and the SDP-5 before the AV2 arrived, and I kept both of them connected and in the rack for many weeks to do side-by-side analysis.
    I think you need an RTA to connect and see what is happening in terms of frequency one might have slight boast the other less top end and more low end? Only way is an RTA. Or spectrumlab is free and easy to use what goes out of the outputs is going to display on the spectrum waterfall.

    As old as my sound system is I can spot dodgy fake mixes on bluray that might fly way past you, I’m not saying I’m better than you, I just have an annoying habit of listening too much.

    I’d use the same player and (A and B) the two systems with an RTA the level output might also be shy by a few db.

    I’m going to test run crude test with same music source place the microphone SPL db at near front play a short few seconds of music in stereo 2 channels and then repeat it again with Dolby stereo pro-logic with the surrounds muted only test the LCR to see what the frequency waterfall looks like.

    I’ll post it elsewhere when done.

  7. #37
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    Two Channel, Part 3

    The SDP-5 has two analog direct modes: 5.1 analog bypass and 2.0 analog bypass. In the 5.1 setting, only the L and R mains are bypassed, everything else goes through the processor.

    The AV2 has six direct modes: 7.1 analog bypass, 7-channel, 5.1 analog bypass, 5-channel, 2.0 analog bypass, and 2-channel.

    In the x-channel modes, bass management is still active in the AV2, while the rest of the signal goes through analog bypass.

    It was clear upon first listening that the AV2 was a better analog machine and that the two channel in particular was much improved. Much of the improvement is due to the fact that the low end becomes more full and more solid when the S1S-EX subs complement the SAMs in 2-channel. In addition, the sound is simply cleaner and more natural. In this manner, i can relax and enjoy the sound, rather than sit with some tension as I try to analyze whether I enjoy it or not, as was the case with the SDP-5's 2.0 analog bypass.

    I would say that my favorite two channel listening is still done outside my HT, but now I feel very comfortable just sitting in there and listening to two channel music without feeling the need to relocate to another part of the house.

    The room itself is just so pleasing and insular, that it's easy to really turn up the volume, sit in the dark, and let Deep Purple's "Lazy" lull me to sleep.
    Last edited by Titanium Dome; 02-24-2010 at 08:16 PM. Reason: added missing direct mode in orange
    Out.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBL 4645 View Post

    I’d use the same player and (A and B) the two systems with an RTA the level output might also be shy by a few db.
    Aside from level matching, I'm more interested in what pleases me than messing about with an RTA. The total system calibration that was done is still in effect (see several posts above) and the room has not changed.

    Someday I'll have grumpy stop over if I feel the need for more measurements; more probably I'll just have him over to mess about and drink beer.

    It's the way I'm wired, I guess, but once I've done all the technical work and things are set, the science tends to bore me.
    Out.

  9. #39
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    Even if I, popped on over quickly on the transporter which is inoperative at the moment pending repair. LOL my ears are younger but I’d still use something that doesn’t have ear bashing abuse an RTA.

    Anyway I finished the waterfalls and will have them posted on this forum a few threads below this one.

    Sounds to me like you’re worrying too much, relax if you made simple error in setting-up its not the end, not for least 2 more years.

    Does the two AVR have the means for separate EQ one for stereo and one for Dolby stereo I mean Dolby / dts 5.1 or what ever?

    I think EQ for each as one in stereo will be way different to Dolby stereo or Dolby digital thou the two Dolby modes should be within a few db of each other. The stereo mode might need tightening up a bit or maybe less so that it mirrors as close as possible within a few db otherwise one is going to be different.

    Listen on headphones and switch between something easy like dialogue. Music has random up and down frequency constantly changing not easy to remember choice something easy.

  10. #40
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    Let me know when the transporter is fixed.
    Out.

  11. #41
    JBL 4645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    Let me know when the transporter is fixed.
    Yeah I’ll just hop on and beam my, atoms on over.

    You should have some idea on how to EQ your own set-up now without be so reliant on the chap that did all the fine turning for you.

    Does it not have custom EQ settings like say a bank of 3 or 4 user control settings?

    Get an RTA like the DEQ2496 the amount of money you spent that should be like pocket change to, you that is not an overpriced item and it might have some useful potential in the system, maybe?

    I wouldn’t mind a few if money wasn’t a tight issue because I still have some gaps that need tiny adjustment not abused adjustment just enough to fix what this room is slightly messing up. Yes I know room treatment makes a great deal on tackling some frequencies naturally without eclectically artificial EQ devices.

    How well is the two JBL 18” subs are they still to you’re satisfaction or still to peaky at few frequencies or boomy?

  12. #42
    Heather [Senorita member] hjames's Avatar
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    But again, he built a custom room with specific sound control materials to tame any room issues, then brought in very nice gear with a warranty and had pros do the last bit of fine tuning. Why would he need to fiddle again?

    why in the name of all goodness would he "dink" with it at this point??
    Once its EQed - it should be set. What would be his gain for fiddling with it?
    He says it plays beautifully already - I sure believe him.

    If its cheap downmarket stuff with lots of noise and inherent drift,
    it might need constant fiddling - but its not.

    Really - think about what you are asking ...!

    Quote Originally Posted by JBL 4645 View Post
    You should have some idea on how to EQ your own
    set-up now without be so reliant on the chap that did all the fine turning for you.

    Does it not have custom EQ settings like say a bank of 3 or 4 user control settings?

    Get an RTA like the DEQ2496 the amount of money you spent that should be
    like pocket change to you that is not an overpriced item,
    and it might have some useful potential in the system, maybe?

    How well is the two JBL 18” subs are they still to you’re satisfaction
    or still too peaky at few frequencies or boomy?
    2ch: Oppo, JoLida 502CRC, JBL L212, 18ti,240ti; Heath AS101, Von Schweikert VR4
    7.1: Oppo BDP103D, B&K, UREI 809A, JBL B460

  13. #43
    JBL 4645
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    But again, he built a custom room with specific sound control materials to tame any room issues, then brought in very nice gear with a warranty and had pros do the last bit of fine tuning. Why would he need to fiddle again?

    why in the name of all goodness would he "dink" with it at this point??
    Once its EQed - it should be set. What would be his gain for fiddling with it? He says it plays beautifully already - I sure believe him.

    If its cheap downmarket stuff with lots of noise and inherent drift, it might need constant fiddling - but its not.

    Really - think about what you are asking ...!
    Yeah so fine! Then the chap had an RTA with him! What do you do yours with then huh, a dipstick!

    Least I have a basic RTA and use the ear as some levels might look level. Just slight on propose adjustment of the Q can make the tone shape sound different like whooshy sound. Its hard to describe. But I’m sure some know what I mean.

    The speakers are placed spaced apart and one of them is or both is going to be different than the centre or least they should all sound! The same and that often takes a few days.

    Place them side by side and they’ll be close but the stereo is narrow only good enough for few inches away listening!

    Too far apart and all types of things happen and its like guessing game. Thou its not hard if, you had gasp of what to do with the situation.

    Dome said in one post on dozen threads he was displeased with the bass the boomy tone what was it for music or film what does it matter?

    I seem to recall vaguely it was EQ to as best as it could be, Dome correct me if I’m right or wrong. And that chap would come back and have another go at it.

    When I was working for Warner Bros, it took the sound engineer 2 days to EQ each of the 12 screens. That’s was also a long shift per day. Even a HF blew up on the centre channel during the EQ of the medium size screen.

    I also recalling reading Tomlinson Holman article interview of the same situation where it takes days to EQ. You can’t expect a miracle in less than few hours.

  14. #44
    JBL 4645
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    I heard that.

    Less dink, more listen (bet you thought I was going to say "drink")
    Is that what you guys where doing that day drinking and listening. That’s worse than drinking and driving.

    You need to spend a good working 8 – 9 hours yes your ears might sound hazy and hissy afterwards.

    Did you know drinking affects the inner ear for misbalance! That is why we stumble around trying to gain our balance.

    Drink water or freshly squeezed orange juice with vitamins!

  15. #45
    Senior Member Valentin's Avatar
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    thanks Ti Dome

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