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Thread: best tube amp match for JBL speakers

  1. #1
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Smile best tube amp match for JBL speakers

    Hi,

    Can anybody tell me what kind of vintage tubed amplifiers and the preamps are the best matches for JBL speakers such as 4311, 4343, C40, C50 Olympus S8R, etc? What about Dynaco ST-70? I'm looking to buy them one of these days, so I need your counsel. Thanks a lot in advance.
    Last edited by pyonc; 01-12-2010 at 07:58 PM. Reason: more info

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Unfortunately like so much about audio this is simply too subjective a topic to get meaningful answers. I haven't tried many tube amps with many JBLs, but I have used a MAC MC240 with a few and it is amazing how much it's sound differed from the better solid state amps with my speakers. The VLF bass was significantly rolled off but subjectively the bass was much louder and bloated sounding... likely due to the poor damping factor typical of most transformer coupled tube amps.

    That said, there are many on the forum and elsewhere who love these amps even with large motored JBLs which typically require more control from the amp. I also felt that the the very highest frequencies were a bit rolled off... I would only use such an amp as a midrange amp in a tri-amped system. Then again, you might find the sound to be to your liking, but be careful... just because one person hates it or another loves a piece of gear may not tell you much about how you will feel about it in your system in your room.


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  3. #3
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Unfortunately like so much about audio this is simply too subjective a topic to get meaningful answers. I haven't tried many tube amps with many JBLs, but I have used a MAC MC240 with a few and it is amazing how much it's sound differed from the better solid state amps with my speakers. The VLF bass was significantly rolled off but subjectively the bass was much louder and bloated sounding... likely due to the poor damping factor typical of most transformer coupled tube amps.

    That said, there are many on the forum and elsewhere who love these amps even with large motored JBLs which typically require more control from the amp. I also felt that the the very highest frequencies were a bit rolled off... I would only use such an amp as a midrange amp in a tri-amped system. Then again, you might find the sound to be to your liking, but be careful... just because one person hates it or another loves a piece of gear may not tell you much about how you will feel about it in your system in your room.


    Widget
    As always, I respect your counsel. Thanks a lot.
    When they think of the best matches for JBL speakers,
    the usual names like AR, Mcintosh conjure up, not to mention
    their model numbers. Looks like your model is rather new to me...
    Last edited by pyonc; 01-13-2010 at 05:04 PM. Reason: more info

  4. #4
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyonc View Post
    Looks like your model is rather new to me...
    It is a fairly common vintage tube Mac. I don't think my experience was anomalous, however my expectations might be different from those who love vintage McIntosh amps.

    The Dynaco you mentioned is a 35wpc unit, the MC240 is a 40wpc unit. I doubt most tube lovers would consider the ST70 superior to the MC240, but again I must reiterate the subjective nature of these comparisons.


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    Many factors will come into play...

    Quote Originally Posted by pyonc View Post
    Hi,

    Can anybody tell me what kind of vintage tubed amplifiers and the preamps are the best matches for JBL speakers such as 4311, 4343, C40, C50 Olympus S8R, etc? What about Dynaco ST-70? I'm looking to buy them one of these days, so I need your counsel. Thanks a lot in advance.

    The first would be choice of speakers. The list you mention is a varied group. Some more sensitive than others. Secondly, what volume you play music at. This will dictate need for watts. Thirdly, room size, this will determine proper speaker choice. Fourthly, personal preference. Some love the Mac's, some love horns, newer over older. Opinions here tend to leave you wanting. What may in the beginning seem like a simple question, eventually becomes unanswerable in the sense that audio is all about opinion, with very little objectivity. Yes, you can read a spec sheet for the facts, but that is NO guarantee of personal listening pleasure. I take all opinions on choice of speakers and gear with a grain of salt and then go out , RESEARCH and EXPERIMENT!!!

    Present equipment:
    Dynaco ST400
    Dynaco ST70
    Dynaco SCA35
    Dynaco Pas 2
    Dynaco Pas 3
    Bez 6SN7 preamp
    Kenwood 1000U(7591 tubes)
    Sansui 9090
    Sony DVP-S7000
    GoldRing TT
    Teac 3340 R2R
    Pioneer CT-F1250
    Altec Lansing Model 19
    JBL L166
    JBL L80T
    JBL L100
    JBL L46

    (This list has and will continue to change, I guarantee)

  6. #6
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Something to consider...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    It is a fairly common vintage tube Mac. I don't think my experience was anomalous, however my expectations might be different from those who love vintage McIntosh amps.

    The Dynaco you mentioned is a 35wpc unit, the MC240 is a 40wpc unit. I doubt most tube lovers would consider the ST70 superior to the MC240, but again I must reiterate the subjective nature of these comparisons.


    Widget

    The Dynaco is closer to a 25 wpc amp while the MC-240 will exceed its 40 wpc rating easily. Mine hits 50 wpc @ 1% distortion. Terry DeWickt refurbed mine a year ago and it is in use daily.

    For tube amps, the more efficient your speakers the better your tube amp will play.

    Just my 2 cents of course!

    Regards, Ron
    JBL Pro for home use!

  7. #7
    Senior Member JoMoCo's Avatar
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    If you are attracted to vintage oriented JBL products because of their use as both performers and work horses in professional working environments...you may also appreciate something like the Manley tube products... the Neo-Classic line comes to mind...but there are many different flavors of tube execution out there...Electroluv...to Fischer

    Get something and start a thread with your impressions!

    http://www.manleyaudio.com.au/hifipo...er/neo250.html

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    Senior Member LowPhreak's Avatar
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    I can recommend the Mesa Baron with WIMA caps upgrade (stereo, up to 225/w.p.c.) and Audio Research Classic 120 (monoblocks, 110/w.p.c.), since I've owned and used them with several different speaker types. Not sure how "vintage" they are considered to be, but both are out of production and won't be that easy to find, and are very good tube amps. The ARC's will not be cheap and the Baron will be less that those (single chassis, etc.) but IMO are worth the hunt.

    I've used both on Martin-Logan e-stats, B&W Nautilus (ported), Magnepan Tympani IV and 2.6R panels, A/D/S L990 (sealed), KEF C80's (sealed), and others, so I'd imagine they'd work well with many JBL's too.

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    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by LowPhreak View Post
    I can recommend the Mesa Baron with WIMA caps upgrade (stereo, up to 225/w.p.c.) and Audio Research Classic 120 (monoblocks, 110/w.p.c.), since I've owned and used them with several different speaker types. Not sure how "vintage" they are considered to be, but both are out of production and won't be that easy to find, and are very good tube amps. The ARC's will not be cheap and the Baron will be less that those (single chassis, etc.) but IMO are worth the hunt.

    I've used both on Martin-Logan e-stats, B&W Nautilus (ported), Magnepan Tympani IV and 2.6R panels, A/D/S L990 (sealed), KEF C80's (sealed), and others, so I'd imagine they'd work well with many JBL's too.
    Thanks for your advice.
    For example, the model you mentioned would be good match for JBL Olympus S8R? If not, what other model would you recommend?

  10. #10
    Senior Member pyonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lansingfan View Post
    The first would be choice of speakers. The list you mention is a varied group. Some more sensitive than others. Secondly, what volume you play music at. This will dictate need for watts. Thirdly, room size, this will determine proper speaker choice. Fourthly, personal preference. Some love the Mac's, some love horns, newer over older. Opinions here tend to leave you wanting. What may in the beginning seem like a simple question, eventually becomes unanswerable in the sense that audio is all about opinion, with very little objectivity. Yes, you can read a spec sheet for the facts, but that is NO guarantee of personal listening pleasure. I take all opinions on choice of speakers and gear with a grain of salt and then go out , RESEARCH and EXPERIMENT!!!

    Present equipment:
    Dynaco ST400
    Dynaco ST70
    Dynaco SCA35
    Dynaco Pas 2
    Dynaco Pas 3
    Bez 6SN7 preamp
    Kenwood 1000U(7591 tubes)
    Sansui 9090
    Sony DVP-S7000
    GoldRing TT
    Teac 3340 R2R
    Pioneer CT-F1250
    Altec Lansing Model 19
    JBL L166
    JBL L80T
    JBL L100
    JBL L46
    (This list has and will continue to change, I guarantee)
    I agree with what you pointed out. Thanks for your good comments.

  11. #11
    Senior Member LowPhreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyonc View Post
    Thanks for your advice.
    For example, the model you mentioned would be good match for JBL Olympus S8R? If not, what other model would you recommend?
    I've never heard that model JBL so I can't say specific to that, but I do know the amps I mentioned are very good ones. Every component has its own 'sound' (different impedances, etc.), so it's trial & error.

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    best tube amp for JBL speakers

    Dynaco's are excellent amps , the Mark 4's were better. two forty watt mono amps. Generally JBL high end speakers were mated with either
    McIntosh , Marantz , or Harman Kardon tube amps. Preamps and power amps , never recievers of any kind.

    Lower price JBL's were mated to Fisher or Scott tube separates. The 1961
    addition of Hi-Fi Stereo Review put together what was called " The Five Stereo Dream Systems. JBL was not included. There was mention of the JBL Paragon with the Bozak Concert Grand , EV Patricians , Jensen Imperials but in another class.

    The JBL Olympus would sound great with JBL's preamp and power amp.
    Greater with Mac or Marantz.
    The older JBL's were designed for tube amps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfshead View Post
    The older JBL's were designed for tube amps.
    Well, all we had at the time were tube amps. At JBL in the 60's, we had mostly McIntosh amps. But I don't remember anybody in engineering ever thinking about designing speakers specifically for tube amps.

    We did do the "8 Ohms sounds better on the 16 Ohms tap, so we'll call it a 16 Ohm speaker", but that's about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Gerst View Post
    Well, all we had at the time were tube amps. At JBL in the 60's, we had mostly McIntosh amps. But I don't remember anybody in engineering ever thinking about designing speakers specifically for tube amps.

    We did do the "8 Ohms sounds better on the 16 Ohms tap, so we'll call it a 16 Ohm speaker", but that's about it.
    JBL designed power amps which took the place of conventional stereo power amps , with plug in eqalizer boards which contolled frequences-responces and damping. The plug-in boards was available for any JBL loudspeaker/enclousure combination.
    SE408S as an example.
    The Paragon was build with a special JBL equalizer board if one wished which took the place of a power amp.
    JBL also made boards for other speakers , SE400S .
    One was designed for the Olympus speaker series.

  15. #15
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Slightly OT

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Gerst View Post
    We did do the "8 Ohms sounds better on the 16 Ohms tap, so we'll call it a 16 Ohm speaker", but that's about it.
    Ah Ha!

    This is the first time I have heard that and it explains the LE15A, LE85, etc. foilcal impedance confusion between the '60s era drivers and the '70s era versions that were identical except for the rated impedance that was printed on them.

    In the '60s virtually all amps were tubed and in the 70s tubes became rather rare, Audio Research and a few others not withstanding, so I guess changing the rated impedance to 8 ohms where most SS amps performed best was necessary to make consumers feel their "new" JBLs would work well with their new SS amp.

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