new to forum & JBL 4345

[tjnif]

Hi..., New to this forum but figured since I'm a proud owner of a pair of unmolested JBL 4345's...I should Join! My system consists of (at present time) 1 Mcintosh C2300 preamp w/ Telefunken ECC803s tubes, 2 Mcintosh MC2000 amps w/ Telefunken long plate 12AX7's, Triple Mica Siemens 12AT7's, TronSeven reference Phono preamp, Kubala Emotion Cables & Interconnects, PS Audio Premier, Basis Debut Signature Vacuum Hold Turntable, Graham Phantom ToneArm, Dynavector XV1s, Modded Brazilian Rswood Khorns, w/ ALK X-overs,ALK Trachorn, Crites Tweeter, Modded Klipsch Belles. I will post some Pics as soon as I can get my camera back from my Daughter!

[BMWCCA]

Hi..., New to this forum but figured since I'm a proud owner of a pair of unmolested JBL 4345's...I should Join!

Welcome! Impressive equipment list but what are you using with the 4345s? how long have you had them? Tell us your story!!!! (and pics, too!)

I feel so...inferior! My 4345s are probably among the most-molested here; cabinets from Chicago, loaded and custom CC crossovers built in NY, and dragged home to Virginia out of the snow in Connecticut just last January. They're powered by the same old transistor Crowns I've used for decades, with transistor pre-amp, transistor active crossover, 6Moons Moonshine cables, and a Sony DVD carousel as my primary source. I think I might have a few 12AX7s in my Mac C20 but that's upstairs in the bedroom.

But seriously, tell us about yours. There are many here who love them and a few more who love them enough to have built their own. I always love to hear about other folks who love them, too.

I managed to buy all three of my daughters, and my wife, their own cameras—so they'd keep their hands off mine!

[tjnif]

Welcome! Impressive equipment list but what are you using with the 4345s? how long have you had them? Tell us your story!!!! (and pics, too!)

I feel so...inferior! My 4345s are probably among the most-molested here; cabinets from Chicago, loaded and custom CC crossovers built in NY, and dragged home to Virginia out of the snow in Connecticut just last January. They're powered by the same old transistor Crowns I've used for decades, with transistor pre-amp, transistor active crossover, 6Moons Moonshine cables, and a Sony DVD carousel as my primary source. I think I might have a few 12AX7s in my Mac C20 but that's upstairs in the bedroom.

But seriously, tell us about yours. There are many here who love them and a few more who love them enough to have built their own. I always love to hear about other folks who love them, too.

I managed to buy all three of my daughters, and my wife, their own cameras—so they'd keep their hands off mine!

Well, I'm using the equipment I have listed!! Eventually I "think" I'm gonna obtain 2 MC 501's cause those JBL's are sukcing the "heat" out of my MC2000 tube amps! The needles bounce to the right effortlessly.....not so w/ my Khorns,although they are rated at 105 db, and I think the JBL's are 95db??? Here's some pics on my junker camera ( not that I'm much better on the "better" camera... They are not consecutive serial #'s but I am the 3rd owner and they have never been touched or abused1 Original foam surrounds, ect....except for the "velcro" which I have just fixed and attached the lenses...

[BMWCCA]

Well, I'm using the equipment I have listed!! Eventually I "think" I'm gonna obtain 2 MC 501's cause those JBL's are sukcing the "heat" out of my MC2000 tube amps!

That's a fine looking collection of hi-fi equipment. I can imagine the 4345s putting a hurt on the Macs, especially if you're not bi-amping them. I'm wondering if the 18s might want more damping but I'd suppose one MC2000 would make a superb amp for the upper three drivers in the system. :dont-know

Thanks for sharing!

[tjnif]

I'm not sure bout that as it "only" puts out 130 watts. I might borrow a pait of 501's from audio classics in the near future and see what kind of difference it makes. I just paid 2 College tuitions so I dont think I'll be laying down any $$$$ for awhile.... but I guess the consensus here is that Bi-amping is the way to go.

[4313B]

but I guess the consensus here is that Bi-amping is the way to go.

Except that it seems 95% of the owners don't want to hassle with it... It's too bad a full passive option was ever offered for it.

[tjnif]

Except that it seems 95% of the owners don't want to hassle with it... It's too bad a full passive option was ever offered for it.

Yea...you can put me on that list too! But I know someone in upstate ny made some passive x-overs....katzaudio?? maybe he can make me a set. Mcintosh is also coming out w/ the MEN220 which is a combo electronic x-over/ room correction. I'll be checking that out for sure at audioclassics.com, they are only an hour from me (as is the Mcintosh factory)!

[dkalsi]

Well, I'm using the equipment I have listed!! Eventually I "think" I'm gonna obtain 2 MC 501's cause those JBL's are sukcing the "heat" out of my MC2000 tube amps! The needles bounce to the right effortlessly.....not so w/ my Khorns,although they are rated at 105 db, and I think the JBL's are 95db??? Here's some pics on my junker camera ( not that I'm much better on the "better" camera... They are not consecutive serial #'s but I am the 3rd owner and they have never been touched or abused1 Original foam surrounds, ect....except for the "velcro" which I have just fixed and attached the lenses...

Tjnif,
I noticed you have Klipshorns. I too have Klipschorns (completely modified) and am currently in the proceeds of building a 4345 clone. I would love you hear your impression of the two speakers and how the compare.

If you wish we take this discussion off-line, please PM with contact info and I will get in touch with you.

Thanks,
Dhar

[tjnif]

Tjnif,
I noticed you have Klipshorns. I too have Klipschorns (completely modified) and am currently in the proceeds of building a 4345 clone. I would love you hear your impression of the two speakers and how the compare.

If you wish we take this discussion off-line, please PM with contact info and I will get in touch with you.

Thanks,
Dhar

I don't think its necessary to take it off line as I'm sure lots of people would be interested.... For the record besides my Brazillian Khorns, I have 2 other pairs and 2 pairs of Klipsch Belles. I was gonna do this big Klipsch 7.1 system on a new house I ws gonna build....buisness ventures didn't materialize ,economy tanked, nuff said.... The Khorns definetly sound more "alive and in "your face". More dynamic and LOUD. I think its the perfect match w/ my MAC system. Thhe JBL's are NO slouch either, they are smoother sounding and the bass kinda "surrounds you" where the Khorn bass is "punchier" and more direct. Some may prefer the smoother sound the JBL's posses but personally I like the sound of my Khorns better. Now, I do believe that system configuration might be the contributing factor as the I do like it loud so perhaps with more powerfull quicker reacting amps (albeit,brighter sounding) might be the ticket for the JBL's. I think the tube saturation is bit to "mellow" for the big blue speakers. I will experiment w/ Bi- amping and using MC 501's in the future..... What mods have you done to your Khorns??? perhaps we can compare notes?? ( you can PM about this since it has no bearing on the Lansing site,whatever you think)... regards, tom

[dkalsi]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Tjnif,

I just sent you a PM about the upgrades I have made to my Klipschorns.

In regards to comparing the two, I way really hoping the JBL 4345 to blow an unmodified Klipschhorn out the water. My work in progress 4345 clones will cost me close to $4K in parts when all is said and done. A used pair of original JBL 4345 cannot be found less than $5K??? Alternatively, an unmolested Klipschorn can be found for $1,700-$2,100 all day. I know Klipsch uses cheap parts and cheap horns and cheap everything, but they sound d*amn good for the price you would pay to pick one up on the used market.

I am sure the JBL 4345s are in every way better, but I have yet to find it out if that improvement is worth the price difference (I really hope so).

Personally, I have no preference towards any one brand. Even though I spent close to $3,500 modifying my Klispchorns, I have no problem accepting that $500 used JBL L-100 could sound better (if that is infact the case). A good speaker is a good speaker, no matter what brand it is. With that said, because I am spending a ton of time and money building the 4345s, I sure hope the JBL 4345s sound better than the Klipschorns.

[tjnif]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Tjnif,

I just sent you a PM about the upgrades I have made to my Klipschorns.

In regards to comparing the two, I way really hoping the JBL 4345 to blow an unmodified Klipschhorn out the water. My work in progress 4345 clones will cost me close to $4K in parts when all is said and done. A used pair of original JBL 4345 cannot be found less than $5K??? Alternatively, an unmolested Klipschorn can be found for $1,700-$2,100 all day. I know Klipsch uses cheap parts and cheap horns and cheap everything, but they sound d*amn good for the price you would pay to pick one up on the used market.

I am sure the JBL 4345s are in every way better, but I have yet to find it out if that improvement is worth the price difference (I really hope so).

Personally, I have no preference towards any one brand. Even though I spent close to $3,500 modifying my Klispchorns, I have no problem accepting that $500 used JBL L-100 could sound better (if that is infact the case). A good speaker is a good speaker, no matter what brand it is. With that said, because I am spending a ton of time and money building the 4345s, I sure hope the JBL 4345s sound better than the Klipschorns.

Remember now, My Khorns are not stock... I use the ALK wood Trachorn, Crites tweeter, ALK universal X-overs w/ sonicaps, and they are wired w/ solid silver Cardas. The woofer is stock as is the 1" alnico driver, but what a transformation! I just think the "shootout" is not fair w/ the JBL's giving up 10db in sensitivity is HUGE, hence the need for a more powerful amp. I'm sure if the khorns were not here I would be amazed w/ the JBL's! as an example I was at Audioclassics and we were comparing the New Klipsch Palladium and the Mac XR200's (I think $10K and $14K repectively) Same deal! The klipsch were in your face more dynamic and the Mac was smoother,not as loud but had better all around bass response, similar to the JBL's. The amps used were a MAC MC240 tube amp for Klipsch and SS MC402, for the MAC going through a tube C2300 preamp, switch ing back and forth. Boy did it sound AMAZING running both pairs together!! Thats the reason why I'm thinking running the 501's will have similar effect. After going back and forth EVERYONE there liked the XR200, including myself (and I AM biased for sure)!

[boputnam]

...I am the 3rd owner and they have never been touched or abused! Original foam surrounds...

That may not be desireable. The foam degrades over time and must be replaced - the driver performance will be off it's Thiele-Small specs. You should consider getting them reconed by a trusted, JBL authorized, shop, using JBL kits. As well, that compression driver (possibly a 2421B, dependant upon the iteration) should be replaced. These fatigue with age, and again, their performance will be off-spec.

Except that it seems 95% of the owners don't want to hassle with it... It's too bad a full passive option was ever offered for it.

Agreed.

[tjnif]

That may not be desireable. The foam degrades over time and must be replaced - the driver performance will be off it's Thiele-Small specs. You should consider getting them reconed by a trusted, JBL authorized, shop, using JBL kits. As well, that compression driver (possibly a 2421B, dependant upon the iteration) should be replaced. These fatigue with age, and again, their performance will be off-spec.

Agreed.

I undrstand that, but they look "Brand New",and is "plush" without any sign of degradation. How does one check to see if the compression driver is up to spec?? My Khorns are from 1972 and the drivers are fine.., but I appreciate the info as I am a newcomer to these speakers. Any advice or constructive criticism is appreciated I might add that they were always in awell kept enviroment and according to the previous owners they were NEVER pushed hard, as they were used with low power amps and it shows! Cones seem tight and it does sound pretty good but, you never can tell....

[BMWCCA]

Yea...you can put me on that list too! But I know someone in upstate ny made some passive x-overs....katzaudio?? maybe he can make me a set.

FWIW, Katzass Audio (Dave Brink) supplied the new/re-coned elements for my 4345s and also built the CC crossovers. My 4345s were Dave's 4345s. Lots of info/history referencing that on this site, pro and con, but the crossovers were built from the schematic provided here. Again, FWIW, those who've heard my system—including a long-time Klipsch dealer/owner—have mostly just listened in disbelief with jaws dropped, eventually developing a blissful smile.

So I had no choice but to bi-amp them and no way to compare them to non-biamp 4345s.

Frankly, back in the old days when you could actually go to shops and actually compare this stuff, I never found a Klipsch product I thought improved substantially upon my 030 JBLs in the large C37 boxes. I'm sure it's because I was but a stubborn, opinionated child at the time. Though I'm not sure much has changed in that respect!

You might want to take in this thread, and the links within it, if you haven't already: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=171841#post171841

Personally, I found this one to be quite inspirational: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...49&postcount=3

[4313B]

Personally, I found this one to be quite inspirational: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...49&postcount=3

Yep. Despite all the strikes against it I still think it is a very nice platform for a 4-way, 14-inch, 15-inch or 18-inch based loudspeaker system. Evidently other people do too.

Interestingly the loudspeaker that started it all and culminated in Greg finally jumping in to "help" the naysayers "get it" was the 250Ti and his urging me to charge couple a few pairs as well as aquaplas the 044Ti's. The whole point was to give adventurous people some options to try and if they liked them, keep them, and if they didn't then reverse them. In thirtysome years Greg has never steered me wrong.

I have nothing good to say about Klipsch loudspeakers. Well, except that they were Made in the U.S.A. That stood for something once and plenty of people liked them just fine.

Agreed.

Yeah, it irritates me to have to build the passive 4-way versions.