using line level impedance transformer/balun?

[alessa]

I have notice those Zaika ZLT-55A 'line level impedance tranformer' to put between CD and preamp or amps..
going for more than 1000$ in Japan:
http://www.hifido.co.jp/KW/G0304/J/0...7911-22031-00/

It just seems to work in very high end systems..

Impedance matching seems important..It is to ensure the most efficient transfer of power (the audio signal) from device to device,
and a solution seems to use line level impedance transformer/balun..
I am using a tube preamp that has a impedance tranformer build in with the input, and the sound seems to be much better than other tube pre-amps i ve got..

So I generally have devices with output impedance of 10, 47, 75, 200 Ohm..
and devices with input impedance of 1.5K, 2K, 20K, 31K, 50K, 1M Ohm...

So does anyone know which cheap line level impedance transformer to buy or how to make these DIY...?

[Allanvh5150]

I have notice those Zaika ZLT-55A 'line level impedance tranformer' to put between CD and preamp or amps..
going for more than 1000$ in Japan:
http://www.hifido.co.jp/KW/G0304/J/0...7911-22031-00/

It just seems to work in very high end systems..

Impedance matching seems important..It is to ensure the most efficient transfer of power (the audio signal) from device to device,
and a solution seems to use line level impedance transformer/balun..
I am using a tube preamp that has a impedance tranformer build in with the input, and the sound seems to be much better than other tube pre-amps i ve got..

So I generally have devices with output impedance of 10, 47, 75, 200 Ohm..
and devices with input impedance of 1.5K, 2K, 20K, 31K, 50K, 1M Ohm...

So does anyone know which cheap line level impedance transformer to buy or how to make these DIY...?

There is no such thing as a cheap matching transformer. As long as you have a low impedence source driving a high impedence input you should not have any issues. If you want to match you gear exactly it is easier and cheaper to use active. The results can often be far superior as well.

Allan.

[JoMoCo]

Altec matching transformers and others are commonly used in MC / mic signal matching as well as other preamp inputs. Transformer companies have product with a wide variety of application some of which may be what you are looking for...



Check these out for diy ideas or questions

http://www.10audio.com/bob's_devices_step_up.htm

http://www.bobsdevices.com/photos.htm

[alessa]

If you want to match you gear exactly it is easier and cheaper to use active. The results can often be far superior as well.

Allan.

can we get really better sound maching gears impedance?

and what kind of devices can we use for "active" impedance matching?

[Beowulf57]

General points:

1. Impedance matching is important in networks, output transformer/speaker configurations and long signal lines where optimum power transfer is necessary. As all hams know: gotta keep that SWR low or a lot of your power is reflected right back at ya.

2. MC transformers are voltage step-up devices.

3. CD players and preamps are not "power" devices, they are voltage amplifiers and in general all you want is a low output impedance feeding a high input impedance. For example a 2 volt output from a CD player (with say a 500 ohm output impedance) feeding a 10,000 ohm preamp input impedance will have to source 0.2 milliamperes of current and the whopping output power required is 0.4 miiliwatts. You do not need impedance "matching" in this situation.

4. Output transformers are necessary in most tube amplifiers (which are voltage amplifiers) to match the very high output impedance of the tube to the very low impedance of the speaker. The tube cannot source the current reuqired by the speaker directly, except in the case of OTL (Output Transformer Less) designs which use multiple tubes in parallel to reduce the output impedance and source the required current.

[Mike Caldwell]

Hello

It sounds like your looking for a DIY project! Jensen transformers are considered among the best and on their website under the "Schematics" section they offer several schematics for consumer and pro applications.
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/


Have fun
Mike Caldwell

[Eaulive]

General points:

1. Impedance matching is important in networks, output transformer/speaker configurations and long signal lines where optimum power transfer is necessary. As all hams know: gotta keep that SWR low or a lot of your power is reflected right back at ya.

2. MC transformers are voltage step-up devices.

3. CD players and preamps are not "power" devices, they are voltage amplifiers and in general all you want is a low output impedance feeding a high input impedance. For example a 2 volt output from a CD player (with say a 500 ohm output impedance) feeding a 10,000 ohm preamp input impedance will have to source 0.2 milliamperes of current and the whopping output power required is 0.4 miiliwatts. You do not need impedance "matching" in this situation.

4. Output transformers are necessary in most tube amplifiers (which are voltage amplifiers) to match the very high output impedance of the tube to the very low impedance of the speaker. The tube cannot source the current reuqired by the speaker directly, except in the case of OTL (Output Transformer Less) designs which use multiple tubes in parallel to reduce the output impedance and source the required current.

I couldn't say it better. The rest is, again... snake oil.

[jcrobso]

I couldn't say it better. The rest is, again... snake oil.

Be careful of the FUD!!


"So I generally have devices with output impedance of 10, 47, 75, 200 Ohm..
and devices with input impedance of 1.5K, 2K, 20K, 31K, 50K, 1M Ohm..."
This is the way it should be.

Back in the tube days the only practical way to have balanced lines was to use a transformer.
Today there are other ways to get a balanced input and output.

[Eaulive]

Be careful of the FUD!!


"So I generally have devices with output impedance of 10, 47, 75, 200 Ohm..
and devices with input impedance of 1.5K, 2K, 20K, 31K, 50K, 1M Ohm..."
This is the way it should be.

Exactly! Anyways some of these components when loaded at their "rated" impedance _like 100ohms or less_ don't have the output devices to handle the current draw and power dissipation and will often saturate and sound like sh*t.

I remember a "pseudo" PRO CDplayer by teac in the 1980s, the XLR outputs started saturating when loaded at 200 ohms!

[Ruediger]

see Douglas Self's site: http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampin...d/balanced.htm for another source of information.

Ruediger

[andywin]

The use of transformers between CD and amps (pre & power) has been popular in Japan for a long time. Many big name companies like Luxman, Sony etc. have produced them.

The theory is that inserting transformers "softens" the sound of CD therefore giving a more analogue sound.

Western Electric 111C & 119C transformers are popular choices for the DIY route. I have a pair of 119C transformers that I have wired to enable switchable balanced / SE inputs and outputs. I have tried them between a CD and pre and they do make a harsh sounding player more euphonic. Whether this is hi end stuff is debatable.

http://www.jtw.zaq.ne.jp/cfaax409/We...udio11111.html

http://www.westernlabo.com/45_625.html

[Beowulf57]

The theory is that inserting transformers "softens" the sound of CD therefore giving a more analogue sound.

Western Electric 111C & 119C transformers are popular choices for the DIY route. I have a pair of 119C transformers that I have wired to enable switchable balanced / SE inputs and outputs. I have tried them between a CD and pre and they do make a harsh sounding player more euphonic. Whether this is hi end stuff is debatable.

http://www.jtw.zaq.ne.jp/cfaax409/We...udio11111.html

http://www.westernlabo.com/45_625.html

I suspect we are speaking of the use of a transformer/inductor as a filter for HF garbage that is inadequately dealt with in the low pass filters used in harsher sounding CD players.

[jcrobso]

The use of transformers between CD and amps (pre & power) has been popular in Japan for a long time. Many big name companies like Luxman, Sony etc. have produced them.

The theory is that inserting transformers "softens" the sound of CD therefore giving a more analogue sound.

Western Electric 111C & 119C transformers are popular choices for the DIY route. I have a pair of 119C transformers that I have wired to enable switchable balanced / SE inputs and outputs. I have tried them between a CD and pre and they do make a harsh sounding player more euphonic. Whether this is hi end stuff is debatable.

http://www.jtw.zaq.ne.jp/cfaax409/We...udio11111.html

http://www.westernlabo.com/45_625.html

Make it sound more analog, maybe by rounding off the leading edge of a transient wave???

But over the years the digital to analog converts got much better as did the analog filtering. If you have a hash sound CD player toss it and get a better one.
At the radio station 98% of my signals are over balanced lines, this is necessary in this environment, long cable runs, many cables running tight together over long runs, etc.

[Eaulive]

Everything is relative...

From Yorkville sound:

Audiophile signal processing (Analog) - Really expensive esoteric rackmount effects processors designed to reduce tape hiss, eliminate tape saturation, reduce wow and flutter and clean up any tube distortion in the signal path during the analog (tape) recording process. Thus making the final product much more pristine and therefore better sounding to the listener.

Audiophile signal processing (Digital) - Really expensive esoteric rackmount effects processors and software plug-ins designed to emulate tape hiss, and tape saturation, induce wow and flutter and create tube distortion in the signal path during the digital recording process, thus making the final product much less pristine and therefore better sounding to the listener.

[alessa]

The use of transformers between CD and amps (pre & power) has been popular in Japan for a long time. Many big name companies like Luxman, Sony etc. have produced them.

The theory is that inserting transformers "softens" the sound of CD therefore giving a more analogue sound.

This is also my experience with my Tube preamp that has a impedance transformer, it sound way more lively and dynamic than the one without and i've grown quite found of it.
That's why i'd really like to replicate this device.