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Thread: Need a New Amp Set-Up...Recs?

  1. #16
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punch View Post
    Crown would rank among the best but I know they will have a bright. edgy character with the JBL's.
    From our very limited experience with using one PS400 with Opi's 250s at one point during the second Mid-Atlantic get-together, I'd have to agree. I can't explain why the Crowns sound so good at my house with so many different JBLs over so many decades, but they sounded thin and, yeah, maybe "edgy" and "bright" when hooked up to Opi's system in which he uses three Perreaux amps. We didn't spend a lot of time checking pre-amp settings, etc, and as I recall our routing to integrate the amp may have run it through the Sony HT preamp in use but controlled it with one of my Soundcraftsmen Pro-Control pre-amps, too. Regardless, even if there were pre-existing EQ setting or pre-amp coloration involved, the Crown was not as pleasing on the 250s as the in-house system was, so we didn't listen for very long.

    My family can attest to the bi-amp Crowns being anything but "edgy" or "bright" in our house with our 4345s. And I've have no such complaint with any of my seven Crown amps with any of my over-a-dozen JBLs, from 4345s to 030s, but the experience with Opi's system is why I suggested you investigate the Perreaux amps in the first place for your 250tis. :dont-know
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  2. #17
    RIP 2021 SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    I can't explain why the Crowns sound so good at my house with so many different JBLs over so many decades, but they sounded thin and, yeah, maybe "edgy" and "bright" when hooked up to Opi's system in which he uses three Perreaux amps.

    I suggested you investigate the Perreaux amps in the first place for your 250tis. :dont-know
    Wow..I suggested the Crown cause of your crowing...

    Seem to recall that the Perreaux amp is based on the BGW design ?
    Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

  3. #18
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    Wow..I suggested the Crown cause of your crowing...

    Seem to recall that the Perreaux amp is based on the BGW design ?
    Yeah, those Kiwis are just a bunch of copy cats!

    As I said, we didn't investigate very far but there was a difference in sound. I can't imagine a more-full sound with the full range covered evenly with no edginess of "clinical" sound than what the pair of Crowns do on my 4345 clones, but then this was in Opi's home, with his 250ti/L/LE upgrades using his system with my Crown plugged in. His amps sounded better. But then Audio Classic's comments seemed specific to the 250Ti and I have no experience with those. I'm sure others here do, so the suggestion to ask the 250ti owners what works for them makes sense.

    If I had a pair right now they'd be powered with Crowns and maybe they'd sound different in my system in my home. In the end it really may be just what you're used to, but I run the 4345s bi-amped on "direct" on the SC pre-amp (except at extremely low volume where I may use a Fletcher-Munson EQ curve) and anyone who's heard them has expressed amazement at what they hear from the music, and especially in music they're familiar with.

    Maybe it was the speaker cables?
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  4. #19
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    FYI, the eighties model Perreauxs were based on the schematic that Hitachi published in the data book for the Mosfets at the time. Super simple circuit with no current limit or clipping limiters. And ultra reliable.

    Allan.

  5. #20
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Based? yes. Copied? A design is more than parts.

    I still have that Hitachi semiconductor data book somewhere...

  6. #21
    Punch
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEAWOLF97 View Post
    Nick
    What you are getting from AK are "virtual answers" ..suppositions from those who dont have real world experience with this particular speaker.

    Mebbe a better q w/b ..."Attn:250ti owners !! what amps have worked best for you ?"
    Forget that....I am just going to stick with my LH amigos. I called you Tom....I will try you after 3:00.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    Based? yes. Copied? A design is more than parts.

    I still have that Hitachi semiconductor data book somewhere...
    The circuit is simplicity at its best. 5 drive transistors and a handful of other bits. Just add more mosfets and voltage for more power. There were a few othe companies here that made these amps using the same circuit but only one achieved the fame.

    Allan.

  8. #23
    Punch
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    Very funny

  9. #24
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    besides great sound .... I like having volume/gain control/attenuators on the amp

    My Adcom doesnt..the 2 BGW's do..

    clip indicators are nice too .. as is daisy chaining ability and not running HOT,
    and reliability and repair ability and slew rate/dampening and price and...........

    meters don't add value for me...
    Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

  10. #25
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    With all this whoop-di-do I'm hesitant to chime in now, but I've found MOSFET amps to work well with these four-ways. I saw Soundcraftsmen mentioned, and it would be a good choice. I'm driving my L250s with a Pro Power Three.

    Some Hafler JFET/MOSFET amps are worth considering, but my real advice is ATI. If you can find it.
    Out.

  11. #26
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    I saw Soundcraftsmen mentioned, and it would be a good choice. I'm driving my L250s with a Pro Power Three.
    I find this interesting since I own a Pro-Power Four and have used it with my L7s and much preferred the Crown PS-400 over it. 'Round and 'round we go!
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    my real advice is ATI. If you can find it.
    On October 20, 2003, the Wachners sold BGW Systems to Amplifier Technologies, Inc. of Montebello, California. Under ATI, BGW has introduced several new amplifier designs[10] but has reduced its industry profile

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGW_Systems

    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    whoop-di-do
    can you say those words in an open forum ?
    Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

  13. #28
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    We've traveled this road before: http://www.ati-amp.com/msrp.html
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    We've traveled this road before: http://www.ati-amp.com/msrp.html
    that 3002 is nice - free shipping

    http://www.palmbeachdigital.com/Deta...ProductID=3645

    ATI AT 3002 $1,989.99 ATI\’s “Pure Balance”® technology introduces a range of models that feature true differential design: balanced from input to output. This design allows the quietest and purest reproduction of the audio signal. Power output is 300WRMS\/ channel into 8 Ohms from 20Hz to 20kHz with no more than 0.03\% THD and I.M. distortion. The AT3000 is available in 2 to 7 channel configurations and is upgradeable by adding 300W power modules. Each model comes standard with 2 massive toroidal transformers with quick connect plugs. Remote Trigger: Activated from 3.3VDC to 24 VDC via a heavy-duty relay Protection Circuits: Optically –coupled with full automatic reset. Toroid Transformers: 40\% more efficient than EI type. Separate bi-filar windings for each channel guaranty lower noise and crosstalk. Circuit Boards: Double-sided, FR-4 glass-epoxy, computer-grade boards are assembled in-house. Soft Start Circuitry: Ultra soft turn on reduces in-rush current to a minimum. Multiple units can be turned on without tripping circuit breakers eliminating the need for sequencing. Power Transistors: High-current, bi-polar output transistors with active bias circuits result in effortless operation. Power Cord: Detachable, 3-wire cord. 7-Year Warranty Parts and labor against defects in parts or workmanship. Dimensions: 17\"w X 8.75\"h X 18\"d \(chassis\) weight - 56 to 106lbs \(model dependent\)

    the closest Perreaux seems to be the 350 Stereo Power Amplifier
    http://www.paulmoney.co.nz/shop/ampl...o-power-amplif

    nobody seems to quote prices, but I did see a used one for 3,500 ...geeze for 1500+ less, I'd go for the NEW ATI
    Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

  15. #30
    Punch
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    Well....the 250's driver are back from getting refoamed. Van L speakerworks did an incredible job. I installed the 14's and the repaired 104h (dust cap). I would say that they do sound VERY good with the Mac 6500 integrated, BUT it seems if they need a bit more headroom....it does not seem like they are quite at their potential...not quite enough on-tap.

    I messed with the bus bars a bit, and I think they are getting dialed in.

    John Van L. gave me some gear to audition....Cary Pre-Amp, Perreaux 220P power amp, and some big power cords and interconnects. I kept them powered on overnight, and I played them this morning. They sound good at a low level, but as soon as I turned them up just a bit, they sounded muddy with some mild distortion....not sure what the problem was but I fixed it.


    The Cary Audi Pre-Amp with the Perreaux 220P is a great tone.....lots of guts. This might be the combo.

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