Speaker Cable...quick recommendations

[rusty jefferson]

Here is a question I ask the "audiophile" when it comes to the many myths that abound on the subject.
If a 10 million dollar recording studio uses double pair 10# guage copper wire, biamped, (4 conductor) wouldn't they switch to your magic wire that you use on your $5,000. system if it made a difference?

I have a friend who used to work at this studio at the time this photo was taken, in the late '70s. Pretty much anyone who visited thought it sounded good in there.

Some people, however, think music at home should sound like the music on the other side of that glass wall. 4or5 guys playing right in front of you. No overdubs, mixing boards, digital processors, pitch enhancers, Dolby noise reduction, etc. Some people like a "produced" sound, and some don't. The guy who runs Mapleshade is the latter. As well as making those crazy looking wires, he also runs a small recording studio out of his home. He records straight to two track tape. No board, no nothing. Just a couple of microphones into the tape machine. And all the mic wire is his own. It imparts a very natural sound to his records. It's hard to describe, but check out one of his recordings. You might like the sound of being "in the room" with a quintet. Or not. But please don't assume things like mic wire, inter-connects, or speaker wire have no effect for everyone. They may not have an effect on you, or your system, but I've heard enough difference in my system, to not return those $100.00 speaker wires.

[Mr. Widget]

The guy who runs Mapleshade is the latter. As well as making those crazy looking wires, he also runs a small recording studio out of his home. He records straight to two track tape. No board, no nothing. Just a couple of microphones into the tape machine. And all the mic wire is his own. It imparts a very natural sound to his records.

I would submit it is his recording technique far more than the wire he uses or sells that imparts that "special" sound.

I have a couple of the Mapleshade CDs. When you listen to them you can hear how he chooses to let a lot of the room into the "mix"... i.e. he has the mics backed off a bit to capture the musicians and the reverberant sound of the rather empty and live environment they are playing in. As you so correctly point out, not everyone will like this sound just as not everyone will like a very polished and heavily produced and overdubbed type of sound. I like some of the Mapleshade recordings that are on a sampler I have. Some of the recordings don't work in my opinion, but some are quite excellent.

While, I'll agree that everything in the recording chain will have an effect on the final sound, I really doubt it is the home brew wires that he sells that are the most influential on the sound. Here is a quote from their on line catalog:

"Startling as it may seem, you ought to be just as concerned about your audio cables. I’ve heard $2000 speakers with off-therack wires that sounded worse than little $100 Radio Shacks with good cables."

While it might be possible to find a pair of terrible $2K speakers or speaker wires that will sound worse than a pair of $100 Radio Shack speakers with the best wire known to man... I'd submit, no wire will make a pair of $100 Radio Shack speakers sound better than a pair of Revel M22s ($1998.00 retail) that are wired with 15¢ a foot zip cord.


Widget

[Eaulive]

They may not have an effect on you, or your system, but I've heard enough difference in my system, to not return those $100.00 speaker wires.

You just hit the nail squarely on the head.

I certainly don't want to imply anything here, but there is a powerful and proven psychological reflex that will make you hear a difference so you won't be dissapointed by your investment.

It's hard to admit (consciously or not) that the big bucks you just spent are not producing any results.

[timc]

But what about the other way around? I have experienced putting in a more expensive cable and, the sound became worse.

Anyway. I can't believe that my statement about wanting to actually blindtest a set of cables have created this much stirr.....

All i wanted was to do a scientific viable little test.

-Tim

[Mr. Widget]

Anyway. I can't believe that my statement about wanting to actually blindtest a set of cables have created this much stirr.....

I don't think, YOUR comment did.

Did you follow the link I posted about power cables. It essentially followed your plan with over 20 participants in a true double blind test. It would be interesting to have a much larger sample, but who would fund such a test... certainly not the magazines who earn money reviewing such devices.


Widget

[Eaulive]

I don't think, YOUR comment did.


Widget

Certainly not, that stir has been going on for quite some time now

[jcrobso]

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=109-160
Or
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=109-062
Or if you want to spend a little more on speaker cable.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=100-942

[timc]

I don't think, YOUR comment did.

Did you follow the link I posted about power cables. It essentially followed your plan with over 20 participants in a true double blind test. It would be interesting to have a much larger sample, but who would fund such a test... certainly not the magazines who earn money reviewing such devices.


Widget

I read much of the thread, and i have to say I did not like the way that test was done. There were too many variables. Different setups, different rooms. I also believe that testing more than 1 parametres at once is a mistake. The thing is. IF there is a real difference, is it not logical to think that the difference would make different impact in different setups? We don't know anything about the sonic character of the systems used by the testers.

In my mind a test like this has to be done on the same system, if one wants to determine what differences there are. I will keep my test much simpler.

Listen seeing to A and B. And then several repeats where we don't know wich one is playing, and try do identify it.


-Tim

[Allanvh5150]

With metal being metal and electrons being electrons, conductivity wise there is very little difference in the type of conductor or the size. Obviously for large power inputs one would want to select a larger conductor size. The ultimate cable would be 2 single enammeled copper conductors, spaced appart and mounted in some way as to protect them. This setup has very little inductance and very little capacitance. However, it is not really practical. For speakers one could use standard 1.5mm twin circular flex or in high power aplications go to 2.5mm. Interconnects are a bit different and it is ideal to select a low capacitence cable. I prefer to make my own cables because is is very easy to find high quality cable and connectors. Cheap cables are what they are. Super expensive cables are for people who want to feel good about thier purchase by knowing that they purchased the most expensive cable. They are also for people with more money than sense.

I am not saying that the expensive cables are not better than the cheapies, they are. But compare a 5 dollar cable to a 50 dollar one and most people will notice the difference. Compare a 50 dollar cable to a 500 dollar cable and the difference will probably only be noticed by the people that percieve that the expensive cable must "sound" better.

My choices for speaker cable are standard circular flex. It is cheap and performs very well.

With interconnect cables I use standard balanced cable of low capacitance, with a uniform twist on the conductors and with a tight woven screen with a foil screen over the top. Many cable manufacturers also offer the cable in different colours.

Allan.

[jcrobso]

A $100 pair of cables will not sound 5 times better than $20 pair cables, except in the listeners mind.
I call this the Emperor's New Cloths syndrome.

[SEAWOLF97]

Many cable manufacturers also offer the cable in different colours.
.

Be very careful ...clear cable sounds better than colored ...

"And Timbre features clear teflon dialectric instead of colored for less impact on the sound"

its from an audiopile catalog,,,,so it must be true..

[Allanvh5150]

Obviously! You can also sit and watch the sound running through the cable as well. However, teflon is the ultimate covering but it is a bit pointless at audio freqencies.

Allan.

[Audiobeer]

I thought it was all nonsense untill a buddy of mine had me run my cables on top of hockey pucks. The difference was like night and day and it didn't stop there. If I froze my hockey pucks a few hours before listening to music......well the difference was over the top baby!

[hjames]

Yeah, this discussion covers the same ground every time it comes up.

I used to work with microwave transmitters and that kind of RF signal travels through wave guide - at 2.6gHz.
People have spoken of skin effect here and related high losses due to that, but it just isn't relevant at audio frequencies.

Once you are using good clean copper at a significant diameter, upgrading beyond that is just diminishing returns, especially at mega dollar prices!

I thought it was all nonsense untill a buddy of mine had me run my cables on top of hockey pucks. The difference was like night and day and it didn't stop there. If I froze my hockey pucks a few hours before listening to music......well the difference was over the top baby!

Skatin' on thin ice, there Audiobeer!

[grumpy]

Frozen Hostess Ding-Dongs work too, and no one will know they're not
hockey pucks (unless you leave them too close to that Class-A amp).

Note: If you leave the foil on, and you don't have an insect problem,
you can eat them later.