are horn systems worse for tinnitus?

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, All,

Lately, my tinnitus, which has been with me for as long as I can remember, seems to have taken on a new "tone", pun intended. In addition to the fairly HF tone I've always heard, I now also hear something much lower, that almost sounds like water running through a pipe!

I am wondering if our L300's, with their two horns, are helping this to develop? We do not play them to the point of harm, or so I've always thought. But, I do wonder if horn systems, because of their efficiency, might be worse for causing tinnitus, than cone-based systems? What do you think, Folks? Both, similar? Or, one type less harmful than the other? Thanks for your thoughts and comments on this, Friends. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc (who is going back to his upstairs plumbing tasks, and is listening to the new Diana Krall Christmas CD!)

[timc]

I think you are on to something, but not because Horn systems are bad by nature.

I experience that when the sound is very clean, I tend to play louder without thinking about it. Since well designed horn systems sound incredible clean, I do play LOUD sometimes.


-Tim

[BMWCCA]

You haven't gotten any older since you acquired your L300s, have you?

I blame my sometimes-invasive-sometimes-not tinnitus on titanium tweets. Never had it with the 044 or even 075s. And I always wear ear-plugs and a full helmet when riding my motorcycle. I also can't hear much beyond 12kHz these days...and not a peep over 16kHz. But the titanium tweets sure play way beyond that, or so I'm told!

But then if the Senate gets it's way I do qualify for Medicare, so I'm sure they'll fix me up. I sure can't afford to let Blue Cross know I have a future pre-existing condition!

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Tim, and BMWCC,

I think that both of you have made some good points. I know that horn systems do sound wonderfully clean and effortless, and for that reason, I guess the volume "does" creep up to a level where it should not. As an example, when I was playing that Diana Krall Christmas CD this morning, after I'd posted my question, I decided to get out my Rat Shack DB meter, and see just how loud it actually was. To my ears, it wasn't that loud, and indeed, I talked to myself, and had no problem hearing myself, if you know what I mean. (As a former Pro musician, I've been in many venues where the music was so loud, you could not hear the person next to you, even when they were shouting!!) In any case, even though I thought it was not too loud, it was averaging around 96-98 DB's of sound pressure!! That's FAR louder than I would have guessed. The music was so clean and effortless, and sounded so "real", that I guess I got a bit carried away. I cranked it down to around 80-85DB's, and it still sounded very nice, indeed. You'd think that, after all those years of playing music, I'd "remember" about horn systems being so clean that they can fool you as to their actual volume!!

Phil, you are also right. I just turned 60 years old, last month, and I do believe that the last of my "parts" has had it's warranty expire, now. So..... yeah, I guess that's the way the cookie, or the hearing, in my case, sometimes crumbles!

But, this additional tone, or sound, has just come on me in the last several months, or even weeks. Now, that we've had some snow, it gets VERY quiet up here in the mountains, especially at night. And, now, compared to that quiet, I can hear this new noise fairly well. In fact, it actually woke me up, a few nights ago, and I thought that someone's car alarm was going off, several blocks away!! I got out of bed, padded downstairs, and opened the front door..... nothing out of the ordinary. It was then, that I realized that the noise was being created in my own hearing system. Oh, well.....

For the last few days, I've been thinking of trying something new in the Spring, or when we get some warmer weather. I had given though to using those old 4333 cabinets that Grumpy gave me, as a bass box, each with a 2235H inside. Then, on top of those, I would add a smaller box, each with a 2123H, a 2105, and an 077 inside. I wonder if changing out the horn for the 2105, or whatever is the current equivalent of that speaker, would help my hearing any? The 077 is cranked down in the mix, and just sounds sweet to my ears, so I'd like to keep it. But, otherwise, I do have some 035Ti tweets I could use, and maybe a pair of 052Ti's, instead, if it came to that.

I do love the sound and incredible clean transients that a horn system offers, and surely loathe to make a change. In any case, I'll not to anything rash, and will see how things turn out. It's funny how many horns I've bought, along with a few drivers, since I joined LH, all with experimentation in mind. It would be odd, indeed, if, in the end, I had to get rid of all those horns, and go with a cone system (with the 077's, if possible!)!! Talk to you soon, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[JBL 4645]

Oddly so I came away after watching Star Trek 2009 twice on the most powerful THX sound system in Europe at the Empire Leicester Square, May 7th 2009 without a hint of tinnitus being triggered off, and those phaser near the end was flipping LOUD on the JBL HF higher end at the front of the cinema, same in the middle only a few db less, still LOUD! Bent my ears it did!

But the wavelength gets narrower and narrower as you near the higher tones. And don’t they need a bit of power up at there to even register on the ear. Common sounds around the street like pelican crossing bleeping is somewhere around (4KHz to 8KHz) rather easy to detect if you couldn’t then crossing a road might be dangerous?


Also you might be spot in the room where there is null and the tone will not even be heard? A few tones below might be picked up, but a few of them might be in null? Only way is headphones.

I can just pick out a 16KHz tone on Alien3 where Ripley is getting scan with the cryotube there is high pitch frequency when played at the right level, that bends my ear, it pins my ear back.

Tomorrow Never Dies, James Bond uses a gadget to pick a lock with mobile phone where he removes an attachment and slots it into the keyhole, there is high pitch sound that registers around 16KHz.

I think there is high tone in The Truman Show where Truman is driving around in his car while listening to the radio, LOL when suddenly there’s feedback! A high pitched sound that pins my ear back as it goes from audible easy then rises up the scale and pitches my ear back for short while, ouch!

[JoMoCo]

"I have had periods when the ringing comes and goes, but it motivated me to do some research into why and how it is triggered. Stress, diet, blood sugar metabolism, general health can all be factors ... Why not do some of your own research into helping the body's healing response to tinnitus. Some, but not all tinnitus, is reverseable through control of candida / fungal overgrowth which can inhibit maintenence & healing of trauma as well as normal wear & tear and does cause inflamation in and of itself. Fish Oil, Citrus & Spice Oils, Chlorella, Turmeric, Co-Q10, MSM, most phytonutrients & natural anti inflammatories can be helpful supplements...YMMV"

From an other thread here last year and still holds up to current biomedical healing protocols. Both Resveratrol with grape seed & red wine extracts, and Phosphatidylserine have also shown to promote healing of nerve / brain tissues... of which our hearing systems are part of. If its broke, why not fix it? Carefully hear, carefully consider, carefully live.

[mikebake]

Mark;
Your situation may be temporary, but I would consider it unusual enough to get it checked out to see what else may be going on.
As mentioned above ( I don't buy into all the alt. medicine crap, BTW)
caffeine and blood pressure both can have a significant influence on tinnitus, as can other meds, and things such as aspirin, or aspirin-like compounds.
Your horns may well be delivering more level at your ears than a less directional system, too, but what you describe sounds unusual, as I said.
Start with an audiologist, or an ENT if desired. Or wait and see if it stops............

[Eaulive]

I have this high pitched, not so pure tone, kind of a hissy tone like a leaky TV flyback or switching power supply, in both ears.

I always go around looking for bad CRT monitors but it's me, and it's bothering. Sometime it goes away, but right now it's there, I don't know if it got worse after reading this thread though

[JBL 4645]

"I have had periods when the ringing comes and goes, but it motivated me to do some research into why and how it is triggered. Stress, diet, blood sugar metabolism, general health can all be factors ... Why not do some of your own research into helping the body's healing response to tinnitus. Some, but not all tinnitus, is reverseable through control of candida / fungal overgrowth which can inhibit maintenence & healing of trauma as well as normal wear & tear and does cause inflamation in and of itself. Fish Oil, Citrus & Spice Oils, Chlorella, Turmeric, Co-Q10, MSM, most phytonutrients & natural anti inflammatories can be helpful supplements...YMMV"

From an other thread here last year and still holds up to current biomedical healing protocols. Both Resveratrol with grape seed & red wine extracts, and Phosphatidylserine have also shown to promote healing of nerve / brain tissues... of which our hearing systems are part of. If its broke, why not fix it? Carefully hear, carefully consider, carefully live.

You’re not the only. I get the same thing most days on and off and some days I feel like suicide because it’s like Satan playing on your mind! Drives me, Benny!

I try fruit juice drinks in most cases they tend to act as remedy sometimes. Most days I wake up and not a hint of mild inner-ear ringing or sounds like a sine wave at very lower level -70-80db but its audible!

I have this high pitched, not so pure tone, kind of a hissy tone like a leaky TV flyback or switching power supply, in both ears.

I always go around looking for bad CRT monitors but it's me, and it's bothering. Sometime it goes away, but right now it's there, I don't know if it got worse after reading this thread though

Yes, yes, yes just like that!

Now if you cup your hands around you mouth and one ear and make soft hissing like whooshing sound it will reduce the inner-ear hissy sound only for short while, then it slowly fades back in again. Sometimes it might give you a break for several minutes.

Point is the damaged has already been done. Anyway that’s my free contribution if you want to try it out, it’s like a Eureka it just came to me one day oh, many years before I joined this site.

[Doc Mark]

Mark;
Your situation may be temporary, but I would consider it unusual enough to get it checked out to see what else may be going on.
As mentioned above ( I don't buy into all the alt. medicine crap, BTW)
caffeine and blood pressure both can have a significant influence on tinnitus, as can other meds, and things such as aspirin, or aspirin-like compounds.
Your horns may well be delivering more level at your ears than a less directional system, too, but what you describe sounds unusual, as I said.
Start with an audiologist, or an ENT if desired. Or wait and see if it stops............

Good Morning, Mike, and All,

Thanks, everyone, for your comments and suggestions. Mike, after the holidays, I'll go in for a test and see if anything is out of the ordinary, or worse than normal. Good suggestion.

I do know that, many years ago, my wife and I were snow-camping at around 9,500 feet, and had setup our tent camp on top of 12 feet of snow, in a lovely meadow on Mount San Jacinto. Sometime during the night, I woke up, and thought a freight train was getting ready to come right through our tent!! I fought my way out of my sleeping bag, and ripped open the zipper in our tent door, to see what horrible thing was getting ready to do us in!! Guess what? It was only my ears ringing!! Up that high, in the wilderness, camped on snow, which is a great absorber of sound, the quiet was SO absolute, that it seemed my normal ear ringing was magnified about 100 fold!! My wife told me that her ears, too, seemed to ring louder than at home, which was interesting.

In any case, I'll keep an eye on it, or, better said, "an ear", and get a check-up after the New Year. We must take care of our ears, as where would we be without the ability to enjoy our music??? Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Mark (Ye Olde Doc)

[JBL 4645]

Good Morning, Mike, and All,

Thanks, everyone, for your comments and suggestions. Mike, after the holidays, I'll go in for a test and see if anything is out of the ordinary, or worse than normal. Good suggestion. I do know that, many years ago, my wife and I were snow-camping at around 9,500 feet, and had setup our tent camp on top of 12 feet of snow, in a lovely meadow on Mount San Jacinto. Sometime during the night, I woke up, and thought a freight train was getting ready to come right through our tent!!

I fought my way out of my sleeping bag, and ripped open the zipper in our tent door, to see what horrible thing was getting ready to do us in!! Guess what? It was only my ears ringing!! Up that high, in the wilderness, camped on snow, which is a great absorber of sound, the quiet was SO absolute, that it seemed my normal ear ringing was magnified about 100 fold!!

My wife told me that her ears, too, seemed to ring louder than at home, which was interesting.

In any case, I'll keep an eye on it, or, better said, "an ear", and get a check-up after the New Year. We must take care of our ears, as where would we be without the ability to enjoy our music??? Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Mark (Ye Olde Doc)

LOL I think it was “too much pressure” on the ears!
the selecter too much pressure
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0A8vBmfzWU

[Don Mascali]

In my travels I have subjected my ears to;

Started my career as a Sheet Metal worker at age 16
1964-69 USMC, communications attached to Artillery Battery (155mm Guns and 8" Howitzers)
1972 rode a Harley Sportster with straight pipes (Sorry, I didn't know better then)
NRA Pistol Team shooting
NASCAR Winston Cup Crew member
Portable DJ work for several years
HVAC Service on large tonnage Chillers and Boilers

At this point it is a wonder I can hear at all. When I listen to Music I keep a Radio Shack sound level meter handy to make sure no further damage occurs. I normally wear ear plugs during all live music events.

The only time I notice tinnitus is when I take too much aspirin or short term when I violate the ear plug rule.

[djnagle]

I ran a chain saw for 8 hrs a day for 6 years as a timber cutter in the great northwest. I have it pretty bad in my right ear. I've run horns my whole life and have suffered from the big T. Like others have said here, good horns tend to stay distortion free up louder so I turn them up. Bad horns I just turn off.

My wife read somewhere that taking magnesium tabs every day would help and IT DOES. I still here a slight ringing but not hearly as pronounced as when I did not take magnesium. I take one 250mg a day and it really helps.

[Doc Mark]

Evening, Djnagle,

I'm in for some magnesium, if it works as it has for you! Thanks for the suggestion. The really odd sound I experienced a while back, about which I wrote in the OP of this thread, has lessened a good bit, and now it's back to good, old ear ringing. It is more pronounced than it used to be, but not horrible. I still plan to have my ears checked, but need to find a real audiologist to do the job. My insurance will not cover it, I fear, but it's worth the cost, if it helps protect me ears. And, if taking magnesium tabs everyday, is a good thing, I'll begin right away. As I've written before, "too soon old, too late smart", eh?!! Thanks, again, Friends! Merry Christmas, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[JoMoCo]

I would encourage you to do some of your own research on magnesium. It really is an amazing mineral. Here is a start in your search:

http://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Mira...1449083&sr=1-1

By the way almost all mineral absorbtion is dependant upon the pro-biotic flora in the digestive track to make minerals bio-availible to the bloodstream through the digestive track lining.

That being the fact, if you are or have taken anti-biotics, then your ability to absorb minerals has been altered to the down side. Regular pro-biotic inputs in your diet will help increase your digestive track ability to respond to taking magnesium suppliments and also from the food you are already eating which are important as well. Foods high in magnesium are dark green vegatables, nuts, beans, seeds especially sunflower & pumpkin...

Pro-biotic sources include real old school active culture diary products including cottage and other cheeses, yohgurt or kefir & others. A good reference book is Sally Fallon's Nourishing Traditions. Healing in the human body is designed in if you provide the basic tools of nutrition, rest, stress control etc. for it to happen...

Carefully hear the Way, Carefully consider the Truth, Carefully live the Life