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Thread: SDEC / BSS Ok, But what is simular to DACS ?

  1. #1
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    SDEC / BSS Ok, But what is simular to DACS ?

    Need some help here...

    I am building up a "Synthesis" system, or something really close to one.

    My problem now is the SDEC 4500P and 4500X that are more or less rebadged BSS BLU-80 and BLU-32 ( http://www.bssaudio.com/soundweb_london.php )


    I did just buy a BLU-80 as the first step to get a SDEC 4500 setup and I will for now just use it on my subwoofers until I get hold of a BLU-32

    I will ofcourse not get the Synthesis software, but that is no problem, however so do JBL use the DACS calibration system to get things right on the Synthesis systems and it is only available to the certified installers.

    So my question is if there is something simular to the DACS calibration out there I can use with the BSS setup ?

  2. #2
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    I've asked this question myself, having had the DACS calibration done on my Synthesis® One Array.

    I also have an older Synthesis® Three System with the SDP-3, and I've got a spare SDEC 2500 and S400. I'd like to try the SDP-3, SDEC 2500, Performance Series AVA-7 and S400 in a system. I'm not keen on paying $1500 or more to have this done via DACS.

    The best info I have so far is to try the BSS software packages found here:

    http://www.bssaudio.com/software.php

    particularly the HiQnet and Soundweb apps. These appear to be older Windows applications, so I'd have to find an old Windows machine or run them off my Macbook Pro in a Windows partition (which I don't have and don't have enough incentive to install).
    In.

  3. #3
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    (I see TD, not unexpectedly, beat me to the punch )

    I considered (more like fantasized) about going a similar route with the BSS
    london units... the control software (London Architect) is indeed available,
    but as you mentioned the DACS or next-gen JBL/Synthesis cal system is not.

    Having witnessed one such DACS-based install, I can tell you it would be a
    long, iterative, process requiring a significant knowledge and experience
    base to get anywhere close with quality, but non-dedicated cal gear.

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    But the guys using the BSS must have something they use for calibration ??

    The control software is there for free ( Just have to learn how to use it..)

    I mean.. this system is used all over, from small cinemas to large stage setups, it should not be any problem to set it up manually, except that it will take some time but I need something that shows the effect of what I am doing.

    Ohh... I could not find anything at the BSS page regarding how to messure, maybe some one else has better luck ?

  5. #5
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    the trick would be to have something integrated.

    I would think Smaart would work, or a number of other measurement systems,
    but they are generic tools, not HT setup tools.

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    ...but they are generic tools, not HT setup tools.
    And I don't think too much importance can be placed on this. The SDEC/BSS processors are not magic... the magic comes in setting them up. As for the equalization functions that these processors do, unless you have a significant investment in test gear and quite a lot of experience in "Small" room acoustics, I think you'd be far better off with a product like Audyssey.


    Widget

  7. #7
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    Agreed.

    If one were to attempt to balance the cost of getting a proper education,
    experience, and equipment required to begin such an endeavor (and still
    not be assured of success), I believe the dealer- installed/calibration setup
    would look like quite the bargain .

    Passing those gates, it would be a challenge and a boatload of fun (or
    frustration).

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    Well for starters, so do I not think the REW will do the trick here, the same with the XTC setup I have used in previus setups even if it uses 3 messuring points

    Audyssey Hmm.... remember that I live in Norway ??? I would still need an installer to get it up and running.

    Oh Yes I have tried the SVS clone on two of the subwoofers and got a perfect result according to the SVS, but we did messure the room before and after the SVS was there any difference ??

    I still would like to invest in a proffesional messuring setup and then something as close to the DACS as possible, so that is still my question, what is out there and where can I get it ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I think you'd be far better off with a product like Audyssey.


    Widget

    Ohh By the way, Thank you for the trust in me Widget

  10. #10
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    IIRC, Audyssey comes in several flavors, only the most capable requiring dealer calibration/equipment... but perhaps that is what you are referring to.

    My understanding (limited) of the DACS system was that it was a very limited
    build (5 field units?) and was dedicated/specific to HT installations. I don't believe you can procure the equivalent... Hence my earlier reference to Smaart... add CLIO, and other such measurement packages to the possible tool palette and one can perform similar type measurements, but you would be on your own
    regarding a procedure to perform measurements, average, evaluate,
    implement corrections, remeasure, fit to a "house-HT or X-curve", etc...

    I don't see intermediate areas between consumer/self-installed gear, consumer/dealer-installed-calibrated using specific/dedicated
    measurement h/w, and the pro/generic venue tools/gear, with nearly unlimited
    capability, but "only" your training and experience to guide you.

  11. #11
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loffen View Post
    I still would like to invest in a proffesional messuring setup and then something as close to the DACS as possible, so that is still my question, what is out there and where can I get it ?
    The DACS system is a proprietary JBL system that they have been developing and evolving over the past few years. In September at the CEDIA show I spoke at length with several of the engineers at JBL and they told me that their current iteration of DACS is significantly more capable and delivers better results with the SDEC/BSS processors than they were capable of when using the earlier generation DACS... systems that were setup and calibrated as recently as July of this year will not be as well integrated especially in the bass as the systems they can now setup. Realize too that part of the DACS system is the factory trained dealer or technician using the gear. Simply having the setup really isn't enough.

    My comment about using Audyssey wasn't at all meant to be disrespectful of your knowledge or skill, but rather a practical suggestion. It is quite powerful and is fairly simple to use.

    Widget

  12. #12
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    ...and the pro/generic venue tools/gear, with nearly unlimited capability, but "only" your training and experience to guide you.
    There is another issue here. Almost all, actually I don't know of any pro room tuning/testing packages that are geared to rooms that are smaller that a 100+ seat theater... room acoustics and the underlying principles change markedly in rooms the size we have in domestic scenarios. Put another way, taking an RT60 measurement in a home is pointless.


    Widget

  13. #13
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    Agreed. You have to be aware of the capabilities and limitations of both
    your instruments and yourself, including the test environment.

    This forum/venue is not likely the best place to mine for advanced pro
    DSP setup and cal advice of a DIY nature, let alone for use in a HT.

    If I ever make it back to Norway, it would be quite interesting to see
    your progress

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    If I ever make it back to Norway, it would be quite interesting to see
    your progress
    You are allways welcome grumpy

    What I did mean to say is that the regular consumer pruducts do not do the job on my setup..

    Setup = Lexicon MC12HD Xlr, speakers 2 x K2 9800, Sk1000, 4 x S1S EX clones, 4 x S1A, Amps 2 x JC1, 2 XA21, A23 Bridged, 4 x S800.

    The SVS I did mention is a Audyssey knock off, it does not work....

    Ohh sorry widget, just heard that to many times, but I am pretty stubbourn :-) No hard feelings...

    But anyways there must be something out there that installers use and are fairly simple ??

  15. #15
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loffen View Post
    But anyways there must be something out there that installers use and are fairly simple ??
    This is what we use: http://www.audyssey.com/hometheater/soundeq.html

    Augmented by CLIO measurements and decades of experience.

    I have also set up systems with the older Rane sourced Synthesis EQs using CLIO, as well as DEQX and others. All of them seem to require a bit of interpretation/intervention.... this is where the experience comes in.

    I haven't mentioned it publicly before, but we have recently become JBL Synthesis dealers and due to my conversations with JBL engineering we have decided to install the SDEC 4500 system rather than the SDEC 3000 that we originally planned on using in our demo system. The power of this system when combined with JBL's DACS and support is quite impressive. That said, I still highly recommend Audyssey. When set up correctly it can be quite phenomenal... we recently ordered their Sub Equalizer after hearing it demoed... it offers quite a lot of correction at a really good price point.


    Widget

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