Name some hard rock or even jazz drummers from that era who weren't doing booze & dope? Hell, name some from today!Originally Posted by oznob
While you're at it, name some athletes or movie celebs for that matter.
I say so what. It's their personal life, and not mine to judge. What counts is do you like the product they've put out.
John Fogerty insisted that CCR's live performances sounded identical to the recorded ones , that in addition to personal views lead to his banning alcohol or drugs for the band members.
yes, not strictly "hard rock" , but the #1 band in the world for 2 years, pushing the Beatles out of that title.
I'll certainly second Harvey Mason. And, there's also one of my local favorites, Bob Jospe.
But then I've never matured, so I still love what Mick Fleetwood does with his kit on the album Mystery to Me, and I'm especially fond of his syncopation in the chorus on "Emerald Eyes".
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
I'll certainly second Harvey Mason. And, there's also one of my local favorites, Bob Jospe.
But then I've never matured, so I still love what Mick Fleetwood does with his kit on the album Mystery to Me, and I'm especially fond of his syncopation in the chorus on "Emerald Eyes".
Yes, there he is, finally...Mick Fleetwood. Man has DRIVE in his drumming.
Can't think why no one has touched on Hal Blaine. Yeah, yeah, some will say he was just a work horse session man. No room for expression. But in in the world of truly talented musicians he was the go-to drummer, no?
David F
San Jose
Sorry if I got your knickers in a bunch. Moon just seemed to call more attention to himself with his antics than most others. Heck, my favorite rock drummer is John Bonham who suffered the same early death as Moon. My forum name is a backward tribute to him, Bonzo/Oznob. Wouldn't judge any of them. If they want to live the lifestyle that puts them in an early grave, which they did, it's just a sad commentary on the price of fame!Name some hard rock or even jazz drummers from that era who weren't doing booze & dope? Hell, name some from today!
I say so what. It's their personal life, and not mine to judge. What counts is do you like the product they've put out.
. . . or how poorly we handle mental health issues still today. The famous just have more access and more money to self-medicate to mask their problems. I was going to say it's a sign of weak character, or poor self-image, but the reality is mental health and depression are serious diseases that have way too much stigma attached to them to be dealt with openly like we deal with cancer or any other disease. Yeah, there's the physical addiction aspect and, to be sure, it's not always a black-and-white issue.
As my favorite songwriter sings: "If everything was black and white God wouldn't have made gray." (-Kenny White) Track 22 here.
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
I will whole heartedly agree with you on that issue. We do a piss poor job in this country dealing with and understanding the mentally ill! Our county closed it's mental health facility a few years ago and has some patch work response team to deal with suicidal and severe mentally ill patients. More times than not, they are not dealt with properly and eventually commit crimes because they don't know better. It's at that point the jail becomes the defacto mental health facility which is where they do not belong! It happens all too often here and it's wrong!
Sorry to go OT.
Not at all. My knickers are fine, thank you.I was just trying to tell it like it is so to speak.
I think that back in Moon's & Bonham's day, rock was still fairly young as a genre, and still had some growing pains to go through. A lot of things hadn't been done yet and much of it was 'new', radical, or different. Now 35+ years later we've just about seen it all.
Interesting debate going on here.
Back in 1991 on the Old Jazz FM (older Londoners will know what I mean - when it was actually a great station, not the rubbish it has become), Airto Morreira was interviewed by then DJ Steve Edwards. It was an extensive hour long interview talking about his whole career and playing some tracks from him and Opa who he produced.
The last segment of the interview talked about drugs as he had written a chapter in his book called "Drugs and Inspiration". Steve said he wanted Airto to give a message to the listening public. Airto went on to say that his own experience had taught him that no musician should touch drugs because it would take them to places they don't want to be. He also went on to mention that younger musicians would see older musicians taking drugs and want to be like them and went on to say that not only do musicians not need drugs to get inspired but said that guys who stay off stuff can lead their lives and take care of their business much better - in his words "get on the phone and sound good" and still be alert during the daytime being a night person.
For me the most interesting part was when he said there were many top class musicians who wouldn't touch drugs, claiming some never had and never will and went on to name names; names he mentioned included Herbie Hancock, Stanley Clarke, George Duke, Chic Corea, his band member Gary Meek and others. Of course, other players would have experimented and then decided that drugs wasn't for them.
He ended the interview by saying that a lot of people claim that to be inspired you have to do drugs and as far as he's concerned it's a lie.
I was very pleased to hear that; being a fan of many of those musicians and I had that interview on tape for about 15 years but unfortunately lost the cassette around 5 years ago so couldn't transfer it to minidisc.
I think mental illness is very true. Having read the biography of Jaco Pastorius by journalist Bill Mikowski, the alcohol and cocaine abuse manifested the mental illness Jaco suffered, but the abuse made his problems much more pronounced which eventually cost him his life - indirectly because he was beaten up by a night club bouncer unfortunately and didn't have the strength to survive and died age 35. Jaco went from bring a bit crazy but teetotal but when he found fame and did drugs, his mental illness and depression was made stark by the alcohol and drugs.
The piano player Kenny Kirkland who played with Sting and Branford Marsalis among others died from a drug overdose in 1999 so unfortunately some guys hadn’t learned any lessons.
Sorry to get so deep here but its an interesting debate.
Speaking of Sting the drummer in the Police (Copeland?) was very precise and a hard driver too.
Max Weinburg is another powerhouse and he looks so cool and calm while doing it. Last time I saw Springsteen Weinburg was wearing a suit and tie, I like that, he looked sharp and played sharp.
It is possible that hallucinogens gave some otherwise not available inspiration (by allowing one to step outside of themselves or outside their normal existence), but all the hard drugs, pills, alcohol, powders and crystals are frankly for stupid people or the stupid element in smart people. For instance, many great Jazz musicians were great in spite of drugs, not because of them.He ended the interview by saying that a lot of people claim that to be inspired you have to do drugs and as far as he's concerned it's a lie.
Add Frank Zappa to the list.For me the most interesting part was when he said there were many top class musicians who wouldn't touch drugs, claiming some never had and never will and went on to name names; names he mentioned included Herbie Hancock, Stanley Clarke, George Duke, Chic Corea, his band member Gary Meek and others. Of course, other players would have experimented and then decided that drugs wasn't for them.
Clark
Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
I think "everything in moderation" is a better way to look at it. I don't think someone is stupid if they take a few drinks or tokes or whatever to relax or in a social setting. Some people can't do it that way though, because once they get started they don't stop until they're blitzed. Musicians are no better or worse in that sense than anyone else.
One great rock drummer I haven't seen mentioned is Aynsley Dunbar. I saw him in a very small club with Eric Burdon a few years ago. The guy tore up the little Yamaha four piece kit he was playing! He did some great work with The Mothers, you had to be good to be in that band, John Mayall, of course Journey and others.
Modification of my stance accepted, but I personally can't escape the feeling after having a drink with friends that I was being stupid. A number of my best friends have quit after long associations with alcohol and they all have some regret over the time spent drinking. On his death bed, even the lover of the lifestyle W.C Fields said, "the one thing I would like to change, I would like to have tried it (life) without booze." Quote approximate, my memory of it.
I tend to separate an artist's work from their life. Ty Cobb was a miserable bastard but it doesn't change the fact that he was probably the best baseball player that ever lived. If we find out a guy beat his wife and did heroin it doesn't change the music he leaves behind.
I second Dunbar.
Clark
Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
Right. Well I'm talking about having a "few" meaning 2 or 3. Two regular drinks (2x 12 oz. beer, 5 oz. wine, 2 standard mixed drinks) or less is considered "social drinking" and not alcoholic imbibing even by AA, if I understand it correctly.
I just don't understand why anyone would feel stupid about having a couple of drinks at dinner, a ball game, a concert, or any social function where it's accepted - unless you're easily intoxicated or shouldn't drink at all.
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