Crown Amps

[bubbleboy76]

My friend has a Sony 9000 ES from the 90's. He never found anything sounding better either.

[pos]

Interesting review, thanks Barry!

This gave me a chance to do something I have long wanted to try, digital direct out from the CD player straight to an amp while being able to directly compare that to the analog signal from my AV pre. After setting the amp output voltage level at 1kHz to exactly match both types of input the test was on.
(...)
I have always wondered what my AV pre contributed besides convenience. This test got that wonder out of my head.

If you match the analog level with the (unattenuated) SPIDF signal then chances are that you are also near 0dB in the ADC depending on the gain structure of the amp, so this is the ideal situation.
If you attenuate the signal using your preamp before the ADC then maybe the difference will become more obvious at low levels.

Digital in is not flawless though: you get ASRC and jitter in the mix...

[Dave_72]

After a weekend of listening to the I-TECH 5000 HD I have a few things to share.

I have not yet cracked into the DSP engine so this is really amplifier only. It takes me some time to really settle in and get to know something that isn't supposed to have a sonic signature of it's own.

Just a few observations and what they are being compared to:

I have a pair of 64Volt 2kW 7560 series AE Techron amps that deliver a smooth 600 Watts into an 8Ω load . The pair I have are configured equal to the Crown M600 with .775 Volt input sensitivity and infinitely variable fans that you have to work to get them warm enough to even idle. I bought them new optimized for audio. These are currently my favorite amps, and have been for several years.

The sound quality is very similar. I really don't know that I can hear any difference, at least not yet, and for me that is a good thing.

The fans aren't terrible but I won't live with them in an open rack.

Power grid and RF noise immunity, not stellar. My audio system has a dedicated 50A 240 volt four wire outlet that is uninterrupted in it's home run and I have never heard any noise that is supply related, until now. I hear a click in the 4365's when the air-conditioning turns on or off. Not terrible but it's there. Also, if I put an ear up to a horn, I hear a radio or television station, well enough to know that it is in English. When the same is done with the Techrons, nothing, zero audible hiss and certainly no discernible RF. I can't hear that from the chair but, it's there.

I guess having all that iron and huge capacitors in between the grid and the amp output is a good filter.

Digital VS analog input:

The 5000 HD can be configured for either and or a preference that is auto switched. I set this one up for Digital in with analog as a back up so in the event that there is no digital signal to lock on to it defaults to digital.

This gave me a chance to do something I have long wanted to try, digital direct out from the CD player straight to an amp while being able to directly compare that to the analog signal from my AV pre. After setting the amp output voltage level at 1kHz to exactly match both types of input the test was on. I had a friend over and we took turns plugging the SPDF connector in and out well out of view of the listener, a blind test. When this is done the amp quietly self mutes about a second and softly comes back on in about one second. I did plenty of in, out, in at once so that it wasn't just a repeated in and out test. Could we hear a difference? Yep, with fairly good repeatability but barely. The difference?, the direct digital drive has just a touch more edge. We agreed that it was just different and neither was constantly desirable. It depended on the material.

I have always wondered what my AV pre contributed besides convenience. This test got that wonder out of my head. I do believe that the more direct the better but the "drive" that comes with a good pre amp is usually a welcome addition in the chain, at least to me.

I am going to get into the DSP this week.

Nothing in my system is top tier so I hope that this is at all useful.

All the best,
Barry.

Did you get it used or new, may I ask. That's roughly a $4k amp new inc. a basic discount. Personally, no offense, but I would have gotten something like Bryston or Parasound. Or maybe a used Pass Labs.

[1audiohack]

Hi Dave;

I bought it new. I am fairly familiar with the I-TECH series and it's sound character and pretty much knew what I was getting into amp wise and I agree that there are better sounding amps at this price point, I have several. In fact as just an amp, after living with the I-TECH 5000 for a while, I even like my Adcom 585's sound character better and the Tecrons better still.

I bought this amp to dig into the onboard DSP. According to the Crown I-TECH HD literature having the DSP engine in chassis gained them better than 6dB signal to noise through the amp than any, they said any other option outboard. Coupled with the fact that JBL chose it for the M2 and I have no high quality DSP system that has FIIR capability this looked worth the price of tuition.

My current opinion is that it will not be staying in the main system unless I can make real magic with the DSP. It is very powerful, it will swing 100 Volts 20-20kHz so I am sure I will always find use for it.

All the best,
Barry.

[baldrick]

Did you get it used or new, may I ask. That's roughly a $4k amp new inc. a basic discount. Personally, no offense, but I would have gotten something like Bryston or Parasound. Or maybe a used Pass Labs.

A friend just replaced his Bryston 14B SST with a Crown CTS... he has not looked back and do prefer the Crown over the Bryston Another one replaced his Holton amps With another Crown CTS and he was shocked about the performance of Crown.

[Dave_72]

A friend just replaced his Bryston 14B SST with a Crown CTS... he has not looked back and do prefer the Crown over the Bryston Another one replaced his Holton amps With another Crown CTS and he was shocked about the performance of Crown.

Crown CTS? You mean something like this? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...nel_Power.html

That's cool, I wouldn't mind hearing one if I could get a home audition. In addition to the pro stuff, Crown used to make amps more for home use, you know.

[Dave_72]

Hi Dave;

I bought it new. I am fairly familiar with the I-TECH series and it's sound character and pretty much knew what I was getting into amp wise and I agree that there are better sounding amps at this price point, I have several. In fact as just an amp, after living with the I-TECH 5000 for a while, I even like my Adcom 585's sound character better and the Tecrons better still.

I bought this amp to dig into the onboard DSP. According to the Crown I-TECH HD literature having the DSP engine in chassis gained them better than 6dB signal to noise through the amp than any, they said any other option outboard. Coupled with the fact that JBL chose it for the M2 and I have no high quality DSP system that has FIIR capability this looked worth the price of tuition.

My current opinion is that it will not be staying in the main system unless I can make real magic with the DSP. It is very powerful, it will swing 100 Volts 20-20kHz so I am sure I will always find use for it.

All the best,
Barry.

No problem. Use whatever suits your wants and needs. It's just that I find funny that objectivist types sing the praises of pro amps like Crown not realizing that Crown has amps that cost just as much as the dreaded high end models.

[BMWCCA]

A friend just replaced his Bryston 14B SST with a Crown CTS... he has not looked back and do prefer the Crown over the Bryston Another one replaced his Holton amps With another Crown CTS and he was shocked about the performance of Crown.

Just because Crown also builds less-expensive amps designed for DJ-style work, doesn't mean they don't know how to also build a quality amp suitable for hi-fi use.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; back when I bought my first Crown (probably 1972), my local hi-fi dealer and JBL and McIntosh franchise recommended Crown to me. They sold only top-end home hi-fi and they were a Crown dealer. They let me take home a D60, D150, and DC300 to try as replacements for my Fisher SA1000 whose thirst for expensive proprietary tubes annually was wearing thin. I hooked them to my Mac C20—JBL 030 system and determined the D150 fit the budget and made the improvement I was looking for. I'd have gone with the DC300 but it was maybe twice the money back then. I still have that D150 and the C20 today. They've been inseparable from my L112s for over 30-years.

Over the years I brought the C20 and the D150 to the Mac Clinics and the McIntosh guys were very impressed with its performance specs.

There's obviously a touch of snobbery attached to the term "audiophile" and I can't deny that pride of ownership is important to how many feel about their home systems. I've been proud of the way Crown performs in mine for over 40-years. I'd suggest anyone with a spare $200 or so to just try a PS-400 and see what they think. You'll never lose money if you decide it's not your style, but you might be impressed by what you hear.

[Odd]

Has a PL-4 in the main system, and it remains there.

[baldrick]

Crown CTS? You mean something like this? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...nel_Power.html

That's cool, I wouldn't mind hearing one if I could get a home audition. In addition to the pro stuff, Crown used to make amps more for home use, you know.

The bigger Crown CTS are very similar to iTech but without the DSP (can though put in DSP card). Since they are build for permanent installs and not touring they don't have similar loud fans either, they have fans but not as loud as i.e. iTech and MacroTech. CTS runs very cheap on ebay and they really are excellent amps!!

[Jonas_h]

Crown CTS? You mean something like this? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...nel_Power.html

That's cool, I wouldn't mind hearing one if I could get a home audition. In addition to the pro stuff, Crown used to make amps more for home use, you know.

I know a few people who had the Studio Reference II amp from Crown. It beat every other "hifi-amp" they ever heard. Crown discontinued it and moved that segment to Mark Levinson.

I bought the CTs amps which is mentioned as they are standard class A/B and the only reason I consider an upgrade is because Harman introduced the DCi line-up which accepts BLU-link input so it can connect digitally to the JBL SDEC DSP.

[svollmer]

I'd suggest anyone with a spare $200 or so to just try a PS-400 and see what they think. You'll never lose money if you decide it's not your style, but you might be impressed by what you hear.

We can't.....

You already bought all the nice ones!

[baldrick]

I know a few people who had the Studio Reference II amp from Crown. It beat every other "hifi-amp" they ever heard. Crown discontinued it and moved that segment to Mark Levinson.

I bought the CTs amps which is mentioned as they are standard class A/B and the only reason I consider an upgrade is because Harman introduced the DCi line-up which accepts BLU-link input so it can connect digitally to the JBL SDEC DSP.

I've had Studio Reference also

CTS600 and 1200 are class a/b but CTS2000 and 3000 is not, they are class I!

[Dave_72]

Just because Crown also builds less-expensive amps designed for DJ-style work, doesn't mean they don't know how to also build a quality amp suitable for hi-fi use.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; back when I bought my first Crown (probably 1972), my local hi-fi dealer and JBL and McIntosh franchise recommended Crown to me. They sold only top-end home hi-fi and they were a Crown dealer. They let me take home a D60, D150, and DC300 to try as replacements for my Fisher SA1000 whose thirst for expensive proprietary tubes annually was wearing thin. I hooked them to my Mac C20—JBL 030 system and determined the D150 fit the budget and made the improvement I was looking for. I'd have gone with the DC300 but it was maybe twice the money back then. I still have that D150 and the C20 today. They've been inseparable from my L112s for over 30-years.

Over the years I brought the C20 and the D150 to the Mac Clinics and the McIntosh guys were very impressed with its performance specs.

There's obviously a touch of snobbery attached to the term "audiophile" and I can't deny that pride of ownership is important to how many feel about their home systems. I've been proud of the way Crown performs in mine for over 40-years. I'd suggest anyone with a spare $200 or so to just try a PS-400 and see what they think. You'll never lose money if you decide it's not your style, but you might be impressed by what you hear.

Ok, what's a quality amp (from the Crown line up) for hi-fi use?

And those higher priced Crowns aren't much less expensive than the Levinson 532H.

Just throwing that out there due to the misconception that all Crown is dirt cheap.

Personally, I would go for the Levinson, even though I'm not a fan, but that's just my opinion.

[Dave_72]

I know a few people who had the Studio Reference II amp from Crown. It beat every other "hifi-amp" they ever heard. Crown discontinued it and moved that segment to Mark Levinson.

I bought the CTs amps which is mentioned as they are standard class A/B and the only reason I consider an upgrade is because Harman introduced the DCi line-up which accepts BLU-link input so it can connect digitally to the JBL SDEC DSP.

Yes, that's the one...Studio Reference.

I heard about that too.

So, what do you think of Levinson?