Model 19's need help - I need Advice

[Inspiribomb]

I noticed after a while of listening to my Altec Model 19's that one of them did not sound like the other. Specifically, there was a distinct lack of midrange being produced by one woofer. I did some basic troubleshooting, and eventually swapped woofers between cabinets, and the problem followed the woofer.

After that I measured the DCR of all the drivers; both compression drivers measured around 7 ohms, the "good" woofer measured 6.9, and the "bad" one measured 1.6 ohms. I can imagine there is an issue with the VC due to being played very loudly at some point in their day.

At minimum, I want to send this woofer to Great Plains Audio for a recone (the magnets are ferrite, so no remag necessary), but I am wondering if I should just send both and have them both reconed at the same time so they match. Also, do you think anything should be done with the compression drivers right now? I'll eventually tackle a rebuild of the crossovers, but want to get both speakers functioning 100% first.

[jeenie67]

Hi. I own Model 14 and Model 15's which are little brothers of the 19. Now they reside in Di-Poles temporarily (the 15's cabinets were shot from water and the 14's were just too boxy so I'm experimenting with speaker designs). Whenever I re-surround and for my 16" Altec 422Hz-8's recones, I do it in pairs. Great Plains is a fine establishment and cost effective...well worth the investment.

[Inspiribomb]

Thanks for the tips. I do believe I will have both woofers reconed at the same time so that they match.

What about other updates/improvements? The fiberglass stuffing looks kind of ratty inside, would it be advisable to replace that with something like the Acoustic Foam on the Parts Express website? Also, of course the foam around the horn is long-gone, is it worthwhile to purchase replacements?

[jeenie67]

Hola ! I would use any of the newer fiberglass batts they sell with or without the plastic covering. The original cabinets were lined on all surfaces with about 1.5" of regular fiberglass batt (same as house insulation, but the non toxic or itchy kind usually found at speaker suppliers etc.). The front baffle is bare throughout. The batting was lining the entire horn section also. You can play with the amount of material as what the batting does is, reduces the high frequencies by absorbing them and lets the lower registers eminate from the port. Keep a couple of inches away from the port as air will tend to push it out during high db excursions...I found this out! I, before I removed the woofers from their cabinets to install in open baffles, loosely packed the cabinets and found a slight improvement in the bass signature; they didn't sound as boxy. Parts express is a fine company, although their acoustical products are a bit pricey. I also wrap my drivers in very sheer panty hose to keep little particals away from the spider or cone. I do that with all my electronics too. Keep the debris away. Hey! Have a great week. Jeenie.

[Russellc]

Thanks for the tips. I do believe I will have both woofers reconed at the same time so that they match.

What about other updates/improvements? The fiberglass stuffing looks kind of ratty inside, would it be advisable to replace that with something like the Acoustic Foam on the Parts Express website? Also, of course the foam around the horn is long-gone, is it worthwhile to purchase replacements?

I bought a set of 5158G that were like that and I had GP recone them. then a cat went nuts, savagly attacking a cone! I sent it back for a recone, and the two cone colors didnt match. One was more like the original grey, the "new" one was darker. Both sounded excellent, just a slight color difference. If something like that bugs you, recone both.

Russellc

[doclamb]

I have referbished a set of M-19's which I later sold, and presently own another set in excellent condition. Great Plains does fantastic work for pennies and is highly recomended. Replacing the fiberglass stuffing may have a positive effect and then again it may not. The biggest improvements to be had in my opinion is in the crossover. On my referbished set I bought after market crossovers which I initially thought was an improvement, but in the long run really wasn't. The after market crossovers did the audiophile thing, but less of the musical things that make M-19's enjoyable. On my present set of 19's I've upgraded the crossovers by retaining the original inductors, but upgrading the capacitors, resistors, and internal wiring. The change has been very good and a worth while investment. I'm not sure how or if the foam around the horn helps but I like the look of mine with them. You can find new foam from Debbie Darst at [email protected]. $50 delivered plus a couple of bucks for insurance I believe. Good luck they are wonderful speakers.

[Inspiribomb]

Thank you for all the replies!

Perhaps I will leave the crossovers alone for the time being. I've decided that I am going to have both 416-8B woofers reconed. Now, as I understand it, these have Alnico magnets. Did any of the 416-8B woofers have ceramic/ferrite magnets? I've attached a picture of one of mine for reference. I'd like to know so I can determine if they need to be remagnetized or not.

Oh, I also replaced all the T-nuts that hold the crossover bolts with nice stainless steel ones, since most of them were stripped. Much better And, I've given them 3 applications of Howards Feed N Wax, the walnut is really, really looking beautiful! The veneer behind the woofer frame looked terribly dry, and now you can barely tell the difference between that ring and the rest of the veneer.

I think these speakers are worth keeping and restoring to their former glory, and can't wait to hear them with some tubes. I'm thinking an Almarro 318B tube-integrated...

[doclamb]

I believe the 416-8C drivers had ceramic magnets. Great plains will re-magnetize your 416-8B's free of charge as a part of the reconing. I considered the Almarro 318B before deciding to purchase Shindo electronics. I'd also highly consider one of the integrateds from Leben or Audio Note OTO SE with phono. The Audio Note I've owned and is fantastic. The Leben I have not but have heard from many who have that they are very good. Shindo has just come out with a new 6v6 integrated that I'm sure is tremendous as I own the Shindo Montille 6v6 amp with Shindo Aurieges MM Phono and I can tell you the pair with the M-19's is the best sound that I've enjoyed in my room by a large margin.

[Russellc]

I believe the 416-8C drivers had ceramic magnets. Great plains will re-magnetize your 416-8B's free of charge as a part of the reconing. I considered the Almarro 318B before deciding to purchase Shindo electronics. I'd also highly consider one of the integrateds from Leben or Audio Note OTO SE with phono. The Audio Note I've owned and is fantastic. The Leben I have not but have heard from many who have that they are very good. Shindo has just come out with a new 6v6 integrated that I'm sure is tremendous as I own the Shindo Montille 6v6 amp with Shindo Aurieges MM Phono and I can tell you the pair with the M-19's is the best sound that I've enjoyed in my room by a large margin.

You are correct on the 416-8C having ferrite mags.

russellc

[spwal]

I would definitely upgrade the crossovers and hook up wire. Altec 19 are fun to play with. Glad you are enjoying!

[doodlebug]

I had a friend purchase a really nice set of M19s from a local flipper. He complained that they didn't sound good with many of the same observations as our OP.

True enough, a recone of both woofers was required to get them going again. I did upgrade his crossover caps with a bit of improvement in the high end.

This guy lost interest in them after that when a set of L300s _and_ a set of 4343s appeared. They now sit in his back room.....

Cheers,

David

[westend]

Hey Inspiribomb,
I didn't know you had joined the model 19 crowd. I was thinking of a possible recone, as well. From all I've heard, one should do them both, there are reports of the recone and the original sounding different. Maybe GPA gives a group discount?

FWIW, I was biamping the 19's with an active SS (vintage) system and thought they were good. I have plans to change the system in the future.

[Inspiribomb]

Both woofers are back from GPA. Boy do they look nice, they sound great too! Now to find an amp for them...

[Inspiribomb]

Listening to Robin Thicke this morning as I pack to head up North for the weekend, the 19's sound amazing. This is another rare example of a speaker that I could happily live with for life. Their dynamics and effortless sound are unlike anything else I've ever heard. And, this is just with an Aurex SY-C15 preamplifier and rebuilt magnavox tube amp. I really can't wait to hear them with some really nice equipment backing them.

I've decided that these are well worth the investment. I plan to replace the foam around the horn, if for no other reason to give them that "finished" look. I also would like to replace that fiberglass stuffing with some new stuff, as it looks pretty ratty, and I think some mice made their homes there in the past. Any suggestions for a modern equivalent? Maybe some egg-crate type stuff?