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Thread: Sub1500 problem

  1. #16
    Tom Loizeaux
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    Maybe it would be a good idea for someone with JBL connections to call the factory and alert them to this Sub 1500 problem. If JBL knows exactly what the problem is, maybe they should alert their service centers and offer a "re-call" to re-glue these spiders before damage is done to the coils.
    I feel JBL would be wise to step in and take care of this if this is a wide-spread problem. JBL should value their loyal JBL users. This is an opportunity for JBL to gain statue in the marketplace!

    Tom
    Last edited by Tom Loizeaux; 06-11-2004 at 07:52 PM.

  2. #17
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    I'm already on it Tom...

  3. #18
    jcdahl
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    How about posting SNs so we can see if only a certain run appears to be involved? I'll post my 3 later this evening or tomorrow.
    The defective one is number B864-005517 on it. The good one is serial # B864-05519

  4. #19
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Well said.

    Originally posted by Tom Loizeaux
    Maybe it would be a good idea for someone with JBL connections to call the factory and alert them to this Sub 1500 problem. If JBL knows exactly what the problem is, maybe they should alert their service centers and offer a "re-call" to re-glue these spyders before damage is done to the coils.
    I feel JBL would be wise to step in and take care of this if this is a wide-spread problem. JBL should value their loyal JBL users. This is an opportunity for JBL to gain statue in the marketplace!

    Tom
    I agree wholeheartedly, as this isnt an ordinary driver. Its the 1500AL!

    And in my honest opinion it is a problem that can be solved. They have had similar problems before, such as problems with the tinsel leads on the 2226 in the very early 90,s! They solved that, they can solve this.

  5. #20
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    "Sorry to hear about this. If the units are built correctly, this simply should not occur.

    The spider is glued to the frame with Henkle 5019 C.A. adhesive....but, it must be applied over a PRIMER adhesive that is put on the powder coated frame to better promote adhesion of the 5019 C.A. (it is difficult for C.A. adhesive to stick to epoxy powder coating without a primer).

    If production forgot to apply this primer, the spiders will pop off the frames.

    You may need to re-cone, but before that I would try to wipe a primer onto the frame spider landing surface, then re-apply some 5019 CA so it soaks through the spider material.

    Service centers should have 5019 C.A. adhesive, otherwise it is just a cynoacrylate..."super glue"."

  6. #21
    Alex Lancaster
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    Smile

    What primer would that be?

    Alex.

  7. #22
    jcdahl
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    This is the most FANTASTIC forum I have ever been on.

    Can you imagine the poor guy that bought one of these and did not have this resource to draw on. They would be "out of luck"

    You guys are Great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. #23
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    Originally posted by Alex Lancaster
    What primer would that be?

    Alex.
    I'm waiting for that specific answer.

  9. #24
    Tom Loizeaux
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    Giskard,
    Maybe you could ask this person if, since the powder coat is epoxy based, would a thin epoxy adhesive , flowed around the outer edge of the spider bond to the frame and help hold the spider in place.

    Please let us know what you find out.

    Thanks,

    Tom

  10. #25
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Henkel is the parent company of Loctite. At my model building company we use several specialty CA glues. We happen to use Loctite brand as that is what is distributed in the US to smaller end users like my company. Henkel 5019 is the same as Loctite model 422. The appropriate primer is Loctite 770 Prism Primer. I would contact Loctite to find an industrial supplier in your area that stocks these. The glue and primer together will cost about $25. This is for a rather small amount as they don't give this stuff away.

    These glues do give off some nasty odors so you may want to use them outdoors, but they are quite forgiving and easy to use.

    Widget

    PS. Tom, I would not recommend Epoxy glue. Simply using Epoxy doesn't guarantee compatibility with the powder coating. If JBL recommends Henkel 5019/ Loctite 422, that is certainly what I would use.
    Last edited by Mr. Widget; 06-11-2004 at 09:58 PM.

  11. #26
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    Originally posted by jcdahl
    The defective one is number B864-005517 on it. The good one is serial # B864-05519
    OK - the one that I've really pushed with no problems so far is B864-05639. The two still in the box are -05588 and -05603. I will still be a while 'til I get those going...

    John

  12. #27
    jcdahl
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    After getting a Quote from OC Speaker, Parts Express decided to undertake the repair themselves. I am sending it off today so, we will see what they come up with. I included in the returned shipment all of the good suggestions from this thread.

    I'LL KEEP YOU ALL POSTED

  13. #28
    mrbluster
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    It has been suggested to me by someone in the speaker repair business that California-built JBL speakers often have glue failures such as this. The reason being that strict California environmental regulations limit their options (for gluing) in both product and application.

    I'm wondering if anyone has heard anything like this before?

  14. #29
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Viscous Rumors

    Originally posted by mrbluster
    It has been suggested to me by someone in the speaker repair business that California-built JBL speakers often have glue failures such as this. The reason being that strict California environmental regulations limit their options (for gluing) in both product and application.

    I'm wondering if anyone has heard anything like this before?
    I haven't. There are quite a few regulations here in California for coatings (paints and finishes) but I haven't run into issues regarding adhesives.

    I expect the issue here is simply human error and someone missed applying primer to a few woofers or they got behind schedule. There is a specified open time for the primer. If you don't apply the adhesive within the appropriate time window after application of the primer the adhesion will be compromised.

    As for an issue with all JBL woofers... they are abused all over the world in live venues and theaters, I doubt they could stay in business if they were constantly running into failures of this type. So far based on the info from PE the failure rate of this lot of Sub 1500s is on the order of 1%. I doubt even that low number is acceptable to JBL.

    Widget

  15. #30
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    actually

    Enviromental codes have changed dramatically all over the country! Paints, solvents, and adhesives are not formulated with the same chemicals they were ten years ago. If this is in fact the problem, JBL WILL come up with a solution that works. They have had problems here and there with various drivers and have always fixed the problems! I dont really see this as something that cant be fixed!

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