I'm thinking about moving my currently unused Outlaw 990 into the Performance Series in place of the older Fosgate Audionics FAP T1 and moving the Performance Series seven channel amp in place of the Fosgate Audionics 1000.5 amp. I may want to pick your brain about your configuration/set up.Originally Posted by Steve0616
Your description of the changes is intriguing.
Out.
I've got agree with that. But it also comes down to how the system is laid out within the room.
I've auditioned systems that had the mains stuck into the corners or just too close to the side walls to develop a good soundstage. And adding absorption panels doesn't change that.
This is what Sean Olive had to say, on AVS thread, about Harman's listening rooms.
Yes, the lower half of the side walls at the front half of the room is left untreated at the first lateral reflection point (relative to listener and front speakers) to benefit spaciousness and image widening of the front stereo or mono channels. The reasons and benefits are well summarized in Floyd Toole's new book "Sound Reproduction: Loudspeakers and Rooms." These reflections will have less benefit for multichannel reproduction where the reflections in the recording from the side/rear speakers will tend to dominate any spatial effects. In the end, it comes down to a matter of taste and the particular purpose and setup.
Living in the Land of the Sun
Technically, I don't know. Ask Steve Schell perhaps. Everyone who I personally know who has listened to good examples of both has said that the high quality small tube approach reveals spaces and details never before heard. It is also difficult to find a review that does not comment on it. I certainly hear it.
No sweeping cultural intent, just my personal evolution. I don't expect most listeners to like my beloved Sun Ra or Albert Ayler. I generally find the cultural elitism to be on the other foot with large "Classical" orchestras. The sneering at non believers has been constant and pervasive since long before I was born, and I am old. I don't ask for or expect as a right public support for music I like. That would be elitist and presumptive of me, but in the "classical" world it is a given.Yes, exactly, to each his or her own, but your terminology seems either condescending or arrogant. I'm not sure which; maybe both? Probably not your intent.
I could explain in musical terms why I feel the way I do, but not unless someone really wants to hear it.
Clark
Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears
Regarding the 990, I am sure you are familar with the "upsample" mode and may revisit this with your performance speakers. If you can't hear an improvement, then its not probably not going to happen with the 990, at least not with two channel. I use the 7.1 analog inputs for the Yamaha DSP-1. It allows me to tinker with and vary the sound more to my liking at times.
I have read with some amusement that the new Dolby PLIIz is a 9.1 due out this year, adds two front height speakers--similarly located as the DSP front processing speakers. Trinnov optimizing will supposively calibrate and balance it all together to fit the listening room and prevent a big sonic mess.
Of course, it always begins and ends with the recording itself, if its dead, its dead, now matter what technology or system you subject it to.
Yes I'm JBL junkie.
4 years ago when I converted from a stereo system to 5.0 surround system I was concerned about how this would effect my music listing.
So far I don't have any complaints, my AV receiver gives me more options than I had before, I can turn on the DSP and have concert hall, with the surround speakers supplying ambient effects or just turn it off and listen to 2 channel stereo. John
Although you don't have any complaints, you could improve your stereo playback even more by adding a stereo pre-amp w/ HT by-pass. Such as a Parasound 2100.Yes I'm JBL junkie.
4 years ago when I converted from a stereo system to 5.0 surround system I was concerned about how this would effect my music listing.
So far I don't have any complaints, my AV receiver gives me more options than I had before, I can turn on the DSP and have concert hall, with the surround speakers supplying ambient effects or just turn it off and listen to 2 channel stereo. John
Even though I've got a separate stereo system, in the HT room, I'd like to get that Parasound unit. I'd also like to get the Marantz 15S1 TT that comes with a Clear Audio $800 cartridge, to replace my '79 Yamaha TT.
And the only speakers I use, JBL, for any and all the types of music I listen to.
Living in the Land of the Sun
Maybe because I have heard similar effects to what he is describing in my own room with small tube amps his post sounds simply like a statement of fact to me? Then again, it could be that I am just an arrogant SOB and don't mind that trait in others.
I was commenting to a fellow forum member the other day, that I now feel that when someone says the A-7 (or insert any speaker here) is the best sounding speaker he has ever heard, and someone else says it is the worst speaker he has ever heard they are probably both right. Everyday on this forum we read each other's posts praising and damning all sorts of speakers and on each side of the discussion a number of people are knowingly nodding their heads in approval of one side or the other.
Some of us listen in carpeted rooms others tiled... some of us sit in the focus of a symmetrical triangle and others have their speakers at random locations in a room... some of us are listening in stereo and others any one of 30 or so different surround modes/configurations... some of us listen to very revealing analog electronics and others listen to digital XM radio... we rarely mention the actual situation the speaker being discussed is being evaluated in. Some speakers will sound better in one environment than another... some will make digital sound warmer and more spacious while others are so stark and revealing that short of marvelous setup and associated gear they can be hard to listen to. A speaker that creates a holographic stereo image my not be the speaker of choice in a surround system... and on and on.
While I do acknowledge some of us prefer more bass bloom than others and some may want to exaggerate the top end... others really want a slightly pronounced midrange like the A-7 for it's extra bit of clarity. The point is without comparing these speakers in the same environment with similar associated gear, we really have no idea what the other guy is talking about when they say this speaker really works or does not.
Widget
I had separate components, JBL SG520 preamp, SAE Power amps and separate tuner, equalizer, etc. But after getting big screen HDTV I bit the bullet and got an AV receiver. The big downside is that my wife found out that HGTV is now in HD and likes to watch in the living room.
The SG520 and amps are now in my music/guitar room upstairs.
HDTV or HGTV - those gardening and home renovation shows are like crack in HDI had separate components, JBL SG520 preamp, SAE Power amps and separate tuner, equalizer, etc. But after getting big screen HDTV I bit the bullet and got an AV receiver. The big downside is that my wife found out that HDTV is now in HD and likes to watch in the living room.
The SG520 and amps are now in my music/guitar room upstairs.
Then again, Emma is drawn into the crab fishermen on Discovery Channel's "The Deadliest Catch". Its stunning in HD ... if you like men and ships and storms and waves!
2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460
That's it right there. None of us have heard every system ever made, much less in every type of room possible.
And the "this is the best I've ever heard" statement only applies to that system until you then hear another that just blows it away. Like you basicly said, one man's best system is another man's worst.
Its like someone buying what he/she can afford and never listens to anything better for years. So w/o getting out and doing some auditions of better speakers/gear they're left in the dark as to how much better it can really be.
These days, that can be hard thing to do, depending on where one lives. For me I'd have to take the drive to SF to be able to audition systems that are much better than what I've got. Too many audio/HT shops closed up around here over the last few years.
Living in the Land of the Sun
While true, that wasn't the point I was trying to make.
Here is an example. I have a pair of L100s. I bought them years ago along with a Marantz 2275 thinking it would be a fun vintage office system. In my smallish office listening to them in a nearfield setup, they actually sounded rather pleasing to me especially playing vintage rock and pop. For kicks I set them up in my large listening room and there, listening at a much greater distance, they sounded thin, lifeless and rather unpleasant. Currently they are in my garage/shop at one end of a 40' by 13' space and fill the place with a crazy amount of bottom end... not super deep, but a surprising amount of it.
In all three situations I am using the same electronics and speakers... with three different rooms, I would come to three very different opinions of these speakers.
Widget
Ya, the room does certainly make a difference. I had/still have L55s in the first LR, they were very good. Then after we moved, no bass output at all. Thanks to a large room with different ceiling elevations.
Brought in a L212 system with the sub in the front corner and all was good.
Living in the Land of the Sun
I have corrected the post it now reads HGTV! This channel is NOT my cup of tea! Like movies, I'm a big Sci-Fi fan, so I guess I'm out there some where.HDTV or HGTV - those gardening and home renovation shows are like crack in HD
Then again, Emma is drawn into the crab fishermen on Discovery Channel's "The Deadliest Catch". Its stunning in HD ... if you like men and ships and storms and waves!
Yes, I will get the new Star Trek movie in Blue-Ray!
Yes, everyone has his or her favorite, and you're right that the room is a key player. Nevertheless, exploring is half the fun. I enjoy going from dealer to dealer listening to the various brands and models within those brands. At least here in SoCal that's still possible, though getting harder. Going to acquaintances' houses is an adventure,too, usually with predictably bad results but a few delights as well.
IMO the best thing about JBL is the diversity of its offerings. Whenever someone intones the revered "JBL sound" I get a little-ed in my mind. JBL has many sounds. "Which one do you mean?"
All that fancy JBL gear in the lower level of my house produces what I eagerly described as the "best sonic experience ever!!!", yet I hang onto a lot of other gear. The Performance Series is pretty damn good, and once Grumpy and I get done with it, I might regret spending the coin for the Synthesis®.
And yep, I still love to listen to LPs in one of the guest rooms through the L100s, to Trance and Dance in my main office through the 4430s, and in the other offices through the L250s or L7s.
Okay, I like to exercise with the SVAs, rock out to the XPLs, and watch Dancing With the Stars with the sound through the S/2600s.
The point is, in the JBL family there's a breadth of sound that is pleasing to me in many venues, many genres of music, and many different appreciative activities. Variety is a spice when it comes to audio, and I'll avoid being locked into one mode for as long as I can maintain it.
Out.
Evening, All,
Well, darn.... I guess I'm going to be the lone Heretic in this thread. Sweet Bride and I love classical music, and I have to admit that we think our L300's do a fine job of reproducing it! Having been a pro musician for almost 30 years, I've heard lots of live orchestras, ensembles, and soloists, as well as many different singers. To my ear, the L300's reproduce strings very well, and in fact, excel at cello and double bass; brass is done perfectly, as is percussion; and even the subtle nuances of woodwinds, especially the oboe, sound real and just right to me, and also to Sweet Bride. Our L300's reproduce female voices very well, too, and I have always felt that this is a shortcoming for many otherwise good speakers. So, hummmmm...... Oh, well, like I say, I'll happily be the lone Heretic in this one, but I call 'em as I hear 'em!Take care, and God Bless!
Every Good Wish,
Doc
The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.
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