Yet More Capacitors

[Ian Mackenzie]

Well it Sounds like we are all in Bi Lateral Agreement.

Off to Bed here, time for a different sort of Charge Coupling...Muhahahah.

Macka

[Earl K]

Surely you would benefit from class A foot warmers in your COLD Canadian Polar Winter and your heating Bill will be the same but sound nicer when it arrives...

Ha Ha Ha!

- Right ,,, No,,, I'm in an apartment where I pay the electrical but not the heating bill ( an older building with hot water rads ).
- Until that changes ,,,there'll be no inefficient Class A footwarmers for me . Too costly.

[B&KMan]

I like B & K Mans point's, he raises some interesting issues.

Interestingly enough, poor sound or perhaps a deterioration over a priod of time is often the result of poor cable terminations. I am sure most of us have had this problem with a car battery. Imagine what your poor old speaker is trying to do if the terminals are bad..it is a motor after all.

The connections should be cleaned of any oxide and be a secure tight fit with adequate capacity for the current to flow. Cables should be short and heavy gauge copper. Avoid hi end cables with termination boxes, these cables may make your amplifier unstable by introducing reactance.

Ian

Well you have right and in this case I'm a serious guy see pict

WBT And Van den Hul silver gage 2 with telflon : absolutely no compromise

[B&KMan]

from EarlK earlier:

I add to that the referance for recapping the crossover. the cost is astronomical.
It's hard to analayze this data - the technical reproduction vs what is heard - as that is pretty subjective.
I wonder if there is a way to analyze the "trueness" (if you will) or faithfullness of a reproduction. With the current level of technology available, to compare the output of an amp to the output of a crossover to see if one cap is more faithfull than another. Something using high sample rates that could not only perform simple sine wave comparison, but spectral analyses of a range with a broad spectrum input.
.

Well thanks for cue...

Yes actually I performed a analyse in comparison of channel 1 to channel 2 and after verification of coherence noise I check the frequency response of the low, mid connected in crossover. My dual channel spectrum analyser Bruel and Kjaer is specifiquely degisn for acoustic analyse and is generate in this case a random white noise and couple hundred average for precision.
The curve response is clearly exposed but I have not expertise to detect if the cap is maintaint the juice is wright place because I have a original curve...

Mybe one guy is performd this specialist interpretation on live in this forum ???

(i have no problom to built pict of the result...)

Anyway I'M shure and it is clear in this forum and any professionnal who talk the the 30 yeras cap is impossible to run accurate...

[B&KMan]

Yet another spin is that the transducers will only sound as pure and clean as what's coming from upstream.

Lesser quality capacitors like mylars have significant dieletric absorbtion (D/A), this has the effect of smoothing and filtering very fine transient information and all other micro level noise and other by products like 3rd harmonic distortion. This makes the speaker more tolorant of the source.

Therefore, upgrading to higher resolution capacitors will only be as rewarding as the quality of the source. If you have mass mid market Cd player and amp, the results will be different, but not necesarily better.

Ian

It is a excellent method to resume point... I agree !!!

It is a major point of any .... forum... the problem is the isolate the variable to expose the objective point...

One guy is expose a certains points, other guy ;others points.
For my part I have no experience in electronics but big experience in acoustic and vibration.

---Ex 10% of distortion maybe generated by a coax or multibrin cable exposed in 1 g vibration !!! this is a tribo electrical problem.

--- ex: Other problem ; what is a realy fact in question about the mystery rack kill vibration ??? this is my speciality and I work a scientific white paper in this. Of course My set-up is " calibrated in this points" but in regards if reactance of electronical parts : I'M ignorant so maybe if I have a problem in this aspect I not reconize the sympomt. the acoustic result is the SUM of the total good and bad point of the system including room !!

the major difference in audiophile religion approach is no mesurable machine assist experience and in this the small deviation is maybe a final stupid tweaking in relevant of the scientic mesuable experimentation or just the final touch who the magic come...

But one rule on this Imossible to make good result with bad result mesurement

[B&KMan]

Look at the progression

Mylar and NPE Generic

Mylar and NPE with Polypropylene Generic

Mylar and NPE with Polypropylene and Polystyrene XPL-200

Mylar and NPE with Polypropylene Charge Coupled with Polypropylene and Polystyrene used as bypass where sections were not CC 3100

Mylar and NPE with Polypropylene CC all sections 9800

New Solen Networks?????

Rob

YEAH!! that interesting cue...

thanks!!



buy the way I leave in MONTREAL and is is a close town where the SOLEN is have a shop...

1--- SOLEN caps is suffering by a illegal clone cap come from asia and europa.

Actually Solen is run a couple of poursuit of law in the world for broken copyright and illegal utilization of the name " solen " so maybe you buy a sfacke part solen check the distributor and the company contact on WWW.

2--- SOLEN have a world reputation of cap and desrve many very hight end company. wilson, avalon, B&W for name a couple...

I know the line of real better parts and esoteric money trap is not alway clear but it is shure the if you run with cheap with no personnal mesure and selection you go to cataclismic result....

[4313B]

1--- SOLEN caps is suffering by a illegal clone cap come from asia and europa.

Shouldn't be a problem if ordering directly from www.solen.ca

I always call so I can hear "Bon Jour Solen" from the women.

[B&KMan]

Shouldn't be a problem if ordering directly from www.solen.ca

I always call so I can hear "Bon Jour Solen" from the women.

AHHHH! this is the real man

BONJOUR = Good day in french (one word)

Oh buy the way congratulation Giskard for the real beautiful and serious project rebuilding network crossover.



What is the detail of listing part ??

and where you buy the coil foil (Goertz ??) or other company

Thanks for all.


p.s. Because you are a extreme buidlder I assume you are open in any aspect of sound...

My experience in this is : your are probably better result if :
build isolate farrad cage muMetal for coil

glued or attachement all cable in board ( limitation tribo-electrical )

my recent experiment vibration analyse is confirm any product submit in vibration is exposed to produce a certains signature coloration in depent of the modal signature vibration material. in this case your improve transparence and fastest response if you put your crossover in more harder wood and sandwich of other very hard materail for fast damping response in material (rock, steel)...
ideally more down 10 DB level difference on plate and component parts vibration garanty more drainage energie vibration and permit to down tribo electrical noise...

crazy?? but in fact...


best regards...

[4313B]

The capacitors and inductors for the project you posted the photo of were purchased from http://www.gr-research.com/
They custom trimmed the inductors.

The resistors were purchased from http://www.gr-research.com/

The polypropylene film and foil bypass capacitors came from www.partsexpress.com (yellow with red lettering)

The polystyrene film and foil bypass capacitors came from www.percyaudio.com (yellow with black lettering)

"my recent experiment vibration analyse is confirm any product submit in vibration is exposed to produce a certains signature coloration "

Evidently JBL agrees - I've not only been told by their Engineers to isolate the network boards but they themselves are following that practice in certain designs. I already gave up the PC board approach to mounting loudspeaker crossover components years ago. They look nice but that's about it. The particular networks you posted a picture of are prototypes designed to mount outside of any enclosures for quick access to tweaks. I'm currently considering building future networks in their own isolated enclosures outside of the loudspeaker enclosures in the M9500 style.

[B&KMan]

The capacitors and inductors for the project you posted the photo of were purchased from http://www.gr-research.com/
They custom trimmed the inductors.

Thanks for precision and informations. you smell a professionnal guys !!

Well yes alphacore is the goertz flat cable but I know other company is produce flat cable copper 4N.

for the point of view of the Solen the Hepta-Litz inductor is superior to flat cable... but the hepta-litz is a solen product

Do you have a chance to compare goertz and hepta-litz ??

other tip what is the blend soldering you work cardas, wbt, common, silver, ???

[4313B]

Years ago I tested Solen Hepta-Litz against Solen Perfect-Lay in a JBL 4430 and preferred the sound of the Perfect-Lay. I've not tried the Hepta-Litz in anything else.

62-36-2 tin/lead/silver solder

[B&KMan]

I'm currently considering building future networks in their own isolated enclosures outside of the loudspeaker enclosures in the M9500 style.

COOL...

actually I works in modal analyse of composite for improvement linearity response and lower noise floor possible at the basement support electronic device...

Well, do you have accelerometer for evaluation of problem ??

If you wants ingeneering tips let me know ...

[4313B]

Ok, thanks!

[B&KMan]

Years ago I tested Solen Hepta-Litz against Solen Perfect-Lay in a JBL 4430 and preferred the sound of the Perfect-Lay. I've not tried the Hepta-Litz in anything else.

62-36-2 tin/lead/silver solder

Just for nuancing my cue on hepta-litz ..

in solen the bass response is more linear with hepta-litz but the hight is more linear with perfect-Lay...

but you understand the litz is realy 3-4- more time for burning rodage...

other question about your beautyful project Giskard : what is the type of final cable you put to link the component and connection with driver ??

[4313B]

"in solen the bass response is more linear with hepta-litz but the hight is more linear with perfect-Lay..."

Ah!

I don't know what cable they used. Mr. Widget?