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Thread: ...ever get an ice pick to the forehead?

  1. #1
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    ...ever get an ice pick to the forehead?

    In a recent conversation of knowledgable folk on another forum, one person described the sound from compression drivers with titanium diaphragms as the classic ice pick to the forehead sound.

    I never really found them to be harsh or outwardly forward but I suppose I enjoy horns in general but I beleive many do not.

    ...anyway, I suppose this is an amusing description by one who does not.

  2. #2
    Senior Member oldsoundz's Avatar
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    This person may have been listening to Klipsch.

    Every Klipsch speaker I have heard and owned has sounded shrill to me.

    On the other hand, I have loved every JBL horn that I have heard so far.

    Maybe its just me

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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    I'm reading this thread while I listen to the 4345s with their 2306 horns and 2425J compression drivers with factory JBL titanium diaphragms. Couldn't be happier, and I'm not reaching for the ice-pick. :dont-know
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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    As much as it pains me, there are some bad Ti drivers out there, but like Jessica Rabbit, they're not bad, they're just drawn that way.
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    In.

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    Man, I thought the Klips were manufactured by EV and never carried Ti frams...

    I think the guy who made the ice pick to the ferehead comment was a former employee of a Lansing company so maybe he or she has become a tad bit forgetful...

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    Senior Member jbl_daddy's Avatar
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    Next time you see him just tell him he is an idiot.
    Well why not it's just one more pair...
    4340's and 250ti's what an odd pair...

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertbartsch View Post
    ...anyway, I suppose this is an amusing description by one who does not.
    Exactly!

    ...and we should always remember they out number us... which is a good thing, if everyone enjoyed the ice pick to the forehead sound we'd be paying far more for our speakers.


    Widget

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    ..these things are way too dangerous!

    .....dispite what the Second Amendment says, I think we should outlaw ice picks!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertbartsch View Post
    In a recent conversation of knowledgable folk on another forum, one person described the sound from compression drivers with titanium diaphragms as the classic ice pick to the forehead sound.

    I never really found them to be harsh or outwardly forward but I suppose I enjoy horns in general but I beleive many do not.

    ...anyway, I suppose this is an amusing description by one who does not.
    He wouldn’t be watching Basic Instinct by any chance?



    I find some music or film mixes to be very toppy bright with harsh edge. I just tone the level down on the front HF LCR.



    In the case of Johnny Boz who got buggered up pretty badly by titanium HF Ice Pick!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Exactly!

    ...and we should always remember they out number us... which is a good thing, if everyone enjoyed the ice pick to the forehead sound we'd be paying far more for our speakers.


    Widget
    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    I'm reading this thread while I listen to the 4345s with their 2306 horns and 2425J compression drivers with factory JBL titanium diaphragms. Couldn't be happier, and I'm not reaching for the ice-pick. :dont-know
    I hear there real cheap at Kmart!
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    Senior Member Tom Brennan's Avatar
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    Funny, upon auditioning speakers recently my wife and I listened to Maggies and they have a definate shrill resonance in the treble, more subtle than the spikes in a Klipsch Heresy but most certainly there. After a few minutes they were setting my teeth on edge and giving my wife an earache.

    Yet unlike horns Maggies are "audiophile approved" and people are free to interpret the resonance as increased detail.

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    Senior Member LowPhreak's Avatar
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    To be fair - I've owned some Maggies, Tom (2.6R and Tympani IV-D) and I didn't hear what you describe. That's not to say the model(s) you heard weren't that way.

    robertbartsch -

    I do find the 2426H/2370A combo needs some cut in the 2-4kHz area, but nothing that isn't manageable.

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    I made the comment about titanium frams. I do NOT LIKE THEM. Neither does John Meyer, and a host of others. Note JBL engineers are also playing with Beryllium and are bringing out new aluminum frams. If titanium is the be all and end all, why are they doing that? There are measured artifacts induced by titanium..they ain't perfect.

    I own JBL's. Mine have the old aluminum frams. I prefer that sound.

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    I've been a member here for years..I know Don from several Usenet groups.

    I an a retired Pro sound engineer...I have spent most of the last couple years doing chemotherapy...

    When I tried to post the other day my account for some reason no longer existed.

    I look forward to sharing and learning.

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    Well, we have to remember what the Ti diaphragms were supposed to do. When JBL researched and then introduced them, they were created in response to the problems with the Aluminum and dural diaphragms in use then - namely, limited lifespan, especially with the advent of higher power and SPL requirements, relatively older voice coil technology including adhesives and power handling, and the need to create a tougher and more durable diaphragm that could meet the prevailing sound requirments.

    My understanding is when JBL got into the portable sound and higher SPL touring and Cinema markets, they started to see all kinds of failures that indicated the aluminum parts, while sounding great, had reached the limits of their design. Trying to find a compatible yet tougher material while holding down the cost efficiently led them to Ti.

    They introduced the smooth Ti diaphagms and further development and research indicated the metal dome resonances were a problem. The diamond surrounds and then the ribbed pattern domes were an effort to tame and harness those resonances to extend the frequency response while maintaining the desirable characteristics of Ti. All of this was done over 2 decades while thousands of speakers were in operation daily in venues all over the world. JBL was responding to their needs as well as looking out for their product warranty issues.

    I think JBL would acknowledge that the Ti diaphragm, like all products, has its plusses and minuses. With renewed effort from Harmon and push from the engineers, the newer Aluminum and now Be diaphrams are further signs that JBL continues its research and push for the best products out there. Yes, they do cost a fair amount but what newer and better technology doesn't have its development costs that must be recovered.

    Some would say that the Ti phragm can also be tamed somewhat with judicious EQ at the top end. Others don't care for them - that's ok. If one understands what they are for, each can pick the pieces that they like.

    I'm glad that JBL can provide so many different choices for so many markets. I've always wondered what a Vertec Array might sound like in my living room!!

    My 0.02, your mileage may vary.

    Regards,

    Bart
    When faced with another JBL find, Good mech986 says , JBL Fan mech986 says

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    Quote Originally Posted by mech986 View Post
    Well, we have to remember what the Ti diaphragms were supposed to do. When JBL researched and then introduced them, they were created in response to the problems with the Aluminum and dural diaphragms in use then - namely, limited lifespan, especially with the advent of higher power and SPL requirements, relatively older voice coil technology including adhesives and power handling, and the need to create a tougher and more durable diaphragm that could meet the prevailing sound requirments.



    Bart
    Spot on...best sounding system in the world is useless if it doesn't survive the gig...

    But I still use aluminum at home...again just my preference...

    I think forming titanium cheaply didn't come about till the 70's or it would have been used before...I suspect engineers were checking it out way earlier...

    Some amazing things have never made it out of the back rooms...sadly many experiments were just destroyed or dismantled...companies didn't want competitors to see them...

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