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[Ralph856]

I can run the L96 v. the 4412A as A-B and maybe I'll do that at some time.

I would be interested to hear what you think in a room that size.

[MikeBrewster77]

.. aquiring a pair or L20T's, L19s, LSR6328P's with LSR6312SP sub and L96s.

I'm still trying to work out which I like best, and driven by what equipment.

Hey Ralph -

Congrats on your new purchases. Your line up is actually exactly the kind of comparison I was hoping someone could provide an opinion on. Any thoughts on say the L96's vs. the LSR6328's or is it still too early to tell? What kind of amplification are you using on the non-powered models? Also, what do you have the LSR's hooked up to since they only accept balanced inputs?

Best,
- Mike

[Ralph856]

Hi Mike

I've only had the LSR6328P's with LSR6312SP a couple of days so my impressions, stated below are only initial ones! Compared to the L96s, obviously only 2-way, but faster sounding. The Differential Drive technology of the 6328's contributes to a high system sensitivity of 96db / 1m, a lot higher than the Dynaudio BM12a's I recently used and, at 28 litres, over double their volume. The sensitivity helps them sound very listenable at extremely low volume, almost no volume- the sub too! This is a massive plus point if you live in close proximity to others. Very impressive!

On the downside, I find the monitors have a slightly diffuse, soft, grainy quality but I guess that could also be described as 'natural', no doubt great if you are mixing all day. However, I'm getting used to the new presentation and can hopefully live with it.

The sub doesn't go 'that' deep (but deep enough) and the only way to reduce bass output, if not using RMC, is a 4db cut below 50hz- or can be done even more effectively by lowering input sensitivity. I'm not sure why this decreases bass output so markedly? Impedence, I guess.

I'm running them unbalanced, using a quarter inch male x1 to male x2 y-cable from headphone out of my RME soundcard to the sub. The grounding of this cable means no audibe RFI hum from the PC. I previously used a rca cable with neutrik rca to XLR adaptors into the sub but got hum. There is nothing stopping you using a phono lead and neutrik adapters straight into the sub or monitors.

The L96's may be a little too big for your room and need eq on the bass. Maybe? I was using Berning ZH270 OTL monos, around 140 watts into 8 ohms, with a passive pre utilising Dave Slagle auto-formers. There's no question at all that the Bernings sounded purer and more open than the Class AB amps of the LSR's, as they should. On one hand, the actives resolve amazing detail, yet are not truely as transparant as the Bernings with a good passive speaker. But with the actives, everything's been designed to work together.

If I can work out how to connect them up, I'd like to try the L96s with the LSR6312SP.

My overall verdict from playing around in this cosy space, is there are clear advantages to cutting your monitors below 85Hz (whichever ones you choose) and using a sub.

[macaroonie]

OK, I'll bite.

Two of my favorite considerations for that space are the 4313B's and of course the 4301B's. The latter will simply blow your mind - you'll never stop reflecting on their wonder; the 4313B's are a gift from JBL engineers. Both can be found on eBay and both will almost certainly require some refurbishing - that is a good thing 'cause many are here to help...

Thats what I was going to say !!!!!! Oh and L96 also

[Ralph856]

Hey Ralph -
Congrats on your new purchases.

Thanks!

[evans224]

How different are the 4301b and the L19b?

No affiliation: http://ebayitem.com/390057836324

On the 4411s, etc; my short experience with the L96 has been pleasant, but for the tiny amount of additional space the 4411/L112/4412/A's take over the 10" boxes, I think I'd go with the 12". I realize many here praise the same-box-size 4410 over the 4412,but I have no personal experience with making that side-by-side comparison. I can run the L96 v. the 4412A as A-B and maybe I'll do that at some time. Of course I've done the GordonW modded L80T v. the L96 and (other than bass) I prefer the L96. Maybe the T3 crossover could help level that pair. Someday. But then I think the L5 bests all the 10-inchers I've tried, doesn't need stands, and has a small footprint.

I haven't heard the 4411's or L96. However, I have owned both the 4410 and 4412 and listened to them side by side. The 12" woofer is what I went with (it can move some serious AIR), and sold the 4410's. But I completely agree with the L5 assessment. The 4-way system really sets it apart.

[MikeBrewster77]

And I MUST tell you about my problems!

The universe giveth, and the universe taketh away. Or, Karma's a bitch. Or, there really is an entity generally referred to as God, and she or he is pissed at me for some reason or another and decided to smite my hard drive today. But, I digress.

In much happier news - the PT800's came today!!!

I alluded to the fact that they had been ordered in another post, but to bring this thread full circle, I did stick with my original thought which was to buy a more modern JBL offering for my newly established listening room/man-cave/office. Wanna see pictures? Good, 'cause they're attached

I won't bore you by going on and on extolling their virtues; I think that's been adequately covered elsewhere on the forum, and let's face it, I'm a bit late to the party given that they might be considered by some (including JBL themselves) to be "classics" by now.

Suffice it to say that I'm in a bit of awe. The past few months of upgrading my system have been the culmination of many years of lusting after a true "hi-fi" setup - the best part being that JBL can still be a part of that. For all my bitching about product availability et. al., these speakers prove that JBL is still a very viable force to be reckoned with.

I'm also extremely pleased that they seem to be very happy in a smaller room - not overwhelming it at all, to the point that the Rane EQ was taken out of the signal path. After just a little tweaking of the treble control with the turnover set to 2K, they sound right at home.

Thanks for all the recommendations everyone shared here - I truly appreciate your input and enthusiasm!

In sadder news, my hard drive crashed and burned today. Totally unrecoverable - game over man! Easily more than a grand in purchased music that I stupidly did not back up went bye-byes (along with pictures, work documents, tech sheets and manuals for all the JBL speakers I own, etc...) Take it as a friendly PSA from me, folks - back your shit up!

Nonetheless, even after a day that would normally have me kicking dogs and punching babies (I'm kidding ... I'm KIDDING ) the PT800's have a smile on my face that makes me look slightly insane And that's the power of JBL

[Ralph856]

Interesting! They seem similar to Revel's Ultima Gem 2. Although only 86.4 db sensitivity and down to 70Hz for the Ultima's against 91db and 50Hz for the JBL's.

http://www.revelspeakers.com/product...asp?product=30

[MikeBrewster77]

Interesting! They seem similar to Revel's Ultima Gem 2...

Indeed!

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...0&postcount=45

[Doc Mark]

Morning, Mike,

Sorry to hear about your HD, but congrats on getting your PT800's!! Is it possible to see a photo of them without their grills, please? How do you describe their sound, with various kinds of input material? Again, well done, and thanks for the warning about backing up our goodies. Well taken.... Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[JBLAddict]

Interesting! They seem similar to Revel's Ultima Gem 2. Although only 86.4 db sensitivity and down to 70Hz for the Ultima's against 91db and 50Hz for the JBL's.

http://www.revelspeakers.com/product...asp?product=30

Interesting differences in xover points.....650/3200 for the PT800 and 400/2400 for the Gem.....wonder how this affects the sound? or in general how different the sound at 5X the price considering the near identical drivers (though guessing the GEMs tweeter is on a higher Audax rung than the PTs--the TiK, PT, and Revel all use Audax tweeters, right?)

[MikeBrewster77]

Morning, Mike,

Sorry to hear about your HD, but congrats on getting your PT800's!!

Thank you , and thank you!

Is it possible to see a photo of them without their grills, please?

Well, since you asked so nicely

How do you describe their sound, with various kinds of input material?

In a word - marvelous! And, you're in luck because I have pretty diverse taste in music. So, after reading your inquiry earlier, I thought hey, let's put them through their paces with a little bit of everything I've got. So I cycled through the following tracks:

Rock: Telegraph Road - Dire Straits & Rock and Roll (Live) - Heart
Dance: Work (Freemasons Club Mix) - Kelly Rowland
Trance: Traffic - Tiesto
Pop: Integral - Pet Shop Boys & Viva La Vida - Coldplay
Modern Jazz: Always Let Me Go (entire album) - Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock, Jack DeJohnette
Classic Jazz: Lady Bird - Coltrane
Country: Mud on the Tires - Brad Paisley
Bluegrass: When You Say Nothing at All - Alison Krauss
Symphonic/Classical: Symphony no. 9 - Schubert & Winter (Four Seasons) - Vivaldi

I went into this exercise looking for deficiencies. It honestly wasn't so much about enjoying the music as learning the speakers because let's face it - nothing's perfect, right? Personally, I like to identify the flaws in a new component quickly so I can correct what I'm able, accept what I can't, and then stop dwelling on the equipment itself and truly enjoy what's coming out of it.

I won't bore you with all of my listening notes (translated: I'm far too lazy to type all of that) but I can honestly say they passed every test with flying colors.

• Alison Krauss' vocals were beautiful and delicate, which is a tough act to pull off (on lesser systems her voice can sound harsh, shrill, or strained when she really puts some power into her vocals.) There was an impressive airiness to the performance, and the strings were simply gorgeous, with a distinct wholeness to their reproduction.
• Heart's live performance sounded, well ... live. Enough said.
• I chose the modern jazz recording I used because the musicians are actually a client of my "sound guy" and I've heard the recording several times on extremely expensive systems. The JBLs' gave up virtually nothing; and while I have decent upstream equipment, it's not all on par with the systems I've heard this recording on, so it's actually not a fair comparo.
  
  • I also use piano music as a reference for realistic sound since I'm classically trained myself, and after playing for as many years as I have, I know that sound. All I can say is what I heard was spot on.
• The dance and trance tracks are great tests of bass, and the PT800's midbass was spectacular. Quick, tight, dynamic and never muddy or boomy - truly impressive. The only thing it made me realize is that it's time to upgrade my sub - it kinda sorta held its own, but it wasnt really fair to ask it to. Damnit - I knew there was a reason I should have taken shop in school - I could build my own...
• The jazz tracks with their more intimate approach displayed the JBLs' ability to render an extremely accurate, yet wide soundstage with a nearly holographic presence.
• The only selections I approached with any trepidation were the classical pieces, yet I truly was not disappointed. Each individual instrument was defined in space, and sounded like the actual instrument it was (i.e., not just "some string instrument")

The only thing negative I can say (and it's actually a positive) is that their accuracy makes them picky re: source material. The Vivaldi piece I played was a cheap-o recording, and it sounded it; everything sounded cardboard-ish. I know that's not a word, but it's the only way I can describe it. The Schubert piece OTOH is a Deutsche Grammophon recording and it sounded spectacular. Other than that, the only few things I picked up on that were less than ideal can be attributed to the sub needing to be upgraded and a less than perfect listening room.

So, as I mentioned I went into this expecting to identify the shortcomings, but in spite of myself I just wound up enjoying the music. In short, if you haven't previously and you have the opportunity to hear them, I don't think you'd be disappointed!

[Doc Mark]

Evening, Mike,

WOW! That was a fantastic report, and you covered all the bases admirably, my Friend! Many thanks for taking the time to share that info. Much appreciated. Thanks, also, for the great photo. The new JBL's look fine with, or without their grills. So, I must congratulate you again, Mike, on scoring what appears to be a huge grandslam with your new JBL's! Well done, and I'm sure well appreciated by your ears. I look forward to hearing a pair of those one day, myself. Thanks, again, happy listening, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[JBLRaiser]

I see you went with your 'gut' instinct and bought into more recent technology. T-Dome has been a strong advocate for this series and has written much on the subject. I was thinking with the smaller room, a 10" or 8" woofer would suffice. And if you ever decide you long for feeling the lows in your 'bowels', the PS1400 will bring the bacon home. I think once I get my fill of vintage speakers(I'm playing the catch up game), I would love to get some newer JBL's. It just makes good audio sense. Enjoy your new acquisition and let us know your experiences.

[MikeBrewster77]

So, I must congratulate you again, Mike, on scoring what appears to be a huge grandslam with your new JBL's!
Every Good Wish,
Doc

Thank you Doc! I appreciate the well-wishes and I'm sure you'll continue to see a "few" posts from me in the future continuing to extoll their virtues.

I see you went with your 'gut' instinct and bought into more recent technology. T-Dome has been a strong advocate for this series and has written much on the subject. I was thinking with the smaller room, a 10" or 8" woofer would suffice. And if you ever decide you long for feeling the lows in your 'bowels', the PS1400 will bring the bacon home. I think once I get my fill of vintage speakers(I'm playing the catch up game), I would love to get some newer JBL's. It just makes good audio sense. Enjoy your new acquisition and let us know your experiences.

Thank you Mr. Raiser! I definitely got some great advice from the good folks here (all of which I appreciate and seriously considered) but in the end decided to go with a newer offering.

To your point, a lot of what I read here by Dome and several others sharing very positive experiences with the system was a strong part of my decision to take a chance on them without the ability to hear them first.

I've been eyeing the subs since the day the PT800's arrived. Bad Mikey ... BAD Mikey!!! Truth be told, I think they would over-power the current room, but, in a different space...