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Thread: 4350 Newbie

  1. #61
    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    If not, I would humbly suggest starting there.
    +1

  2. #62
    RE: Member when? subwoof's Avatar
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    rotten

    I would also strongly suggest a cleaning / new foam and alignment of the 2" drivers. When that foam turns to goo it will stick to the dia and be heard.

    And yes, get the lens..

    I have a pair of 4350A clones and a real one (WX) for a center channel but it's too damn high for the TV due to the fireplace lip....grrrr....

    sub

  3. #63
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
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    Are the horns on the inside or outside?
    Also since the move, are the horns at about the same height as before the move?
    Are you sitting at approximately the same distance from your boxes?
    Are they 'toed' in?
    Are they on the floor or up on something?
    What's their relationship to the walls? (back and sides)
    Don't worry about the foam inside the 41's. They have been serviced too recently for that to be a problem.
    .... and yes, are you using the lenses?

    I might be deaf, but I can still hear da bells! (Quasimodo)
    .... Oh, and the Kick Drum.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
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    Thanks All !

    yes, have tried the lenses, but they seem to "dull" the sound too much. Tried them facing both ways too ...

    Horns are now at head height almost exactly, several inches higher than when they were in the standard position.

    Placement about 2 foot from the rear wall and toed in approx 35 deg. About 2 foot from the walls and approx 7 feet apart.

    Horns are on the outside so far .....

    They are sitting straight on the carpet at present, but have several ideas for de-coupling from the somewhat "resonant" old wodden floor.
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

  5. #65
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
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    You had it working OK before in your previous place, therefore you know the boxes are working fine.
    I suggest it's time to 'invest' in a decent Graphic or Parametric EQ and fiddle around with the mid frequencies. eg: 630Hz, 800Hz 1KHz etc. to sort out possible 'new' room interactions.

    I might be deaf, but I can still hear da bells! (Quasimodo)
    .... Oh, and the Kick Drum.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
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    Agreed - at least I have an idea of what they can sound like ... now to just get back to that

    Tried the Tennis balls for support .....Score was Tennis Balls Nil - 4350's six !

    They do make such a satisfying noise when they burst though
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

  7. #67
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audionutz View Post
    . . . . yes, have tried the lenses, but they seem to "dull" the sound too much. Tried them facing both ways too ... . . . .
    Well, here's the thing: The problem you describe is clearly attributable to playing those straight shot exponentials without the diffusor. The two things are part of the one plan, and you are not going to get them sounding right without the 2308. So, I would suggest you put them back on and and give your "ear" time to adjust. Brighter almost always sounds better at first. Just put some music on and leave them on for awhile. Leave the room, clean up the kitchen, help junior find his other sneaker, rake some leaves. Then go back in and spend some time fiddling with the levels.

    It's also going to pay to upgrade the capacitors (replace, bypass or bias) at some point. But first I think you should set a new baseline with the diffusers on. You definitely can get them sounding right with the diffusor on, but you will not have the same precision of imaging, if that is what you are focusing on.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
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    Thanks Speakerdave.

    I expect you may be correct, but I keep harking back to the sound I had a few weeeks ago prior to the move. 2308's not fitted, pretty fair imaging and no "dullness" or smoothing on the horns. Of course, they 2440's were not firing directly at my face in that configuration with the speakers on their feet.

    Now, if I fit the 2308's, the lens fins will be vertical and not horizontal, so one wonders what this will do to the imaging ? I realise of course that these are never goiing to be the Kings of Imaging - I didnt get them for that, but I would like to at least be able to place instruments and performers ....

    I have always steered away from tweaks/mods that presented any king of brightness or shrillness. It may well be innitially impressive, but soon loses its appeal after prolonged listening ...

    Cheers

    "nutz
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

  9. #69
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Ahem . . . . add new velcros for the new position and mount them horizontally. I see the speakers still feel sacred to you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Audionutz View Post
    Thanks Speakerdave.

    I expect you may be correct, but I keep harking back to the sound I had a few weeeks ago prior to the move. 2308's not fitted, pretty fair imaging and no "dullness" or smoothing on the horns. Of course, they 2440's were not firing directly at my face in that configuration with the speakers on their feet.

    Now, if I fit the 2308's, the lens fins will be vertical and not horizontal, so one wonders what this will do to the imaging ? I realise of course that these are never goiing to be the Kings of Imaging - I didnt get them for that, but I would like to at least be able to place instruments and performers ....

    I have always steered away from tweaks/mods that presented any king of brightness or shrillness. It may well be innitially impressive, but soon loses its appeal after prolonged listening ...

    Cheers

    "nutz

  10. #70
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave View Post
    Ahem . . . . add new velcros for the new position and mount them horizontally. I see the speakers still feel sacred to you.

    Yes - guilty as charged
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

  11. #71
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
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    What happens if you sit on the floor in front of your fave chair?
    Alternatively, what's it sound like like if you stand up?
    Are there dramatic changes in the sound?
    You may need to try getting the horns on the inside, or if all fails, having them the box right way round if that's at all possible....
    I might be deaf, but I can still hear da bells! (Quasimodo)
    .... Oh, and the Kick Drum.

  12. #72
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
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    Update .......

    Well, having garnered numerous opinions both here and elsewhere, I opted for the simple things first. Tried various materials in the horn throats, along with some basic EQ'ing with an old Behringer I had lying around. Some improvements were noticeable with both approaches, but none seemed to tame the problem completely. Went back to the drawing board and looked at the major things that had changed from the previous set up. The room was obviously the major item, so started looking at room response and especially under floor resonance and the mechanical coupling of the speakers to the floor, or lack thereof. The bass was flabby and very rumbly - the whole room danced along with any significant bass notes.

    Tried de-coupling as much as pratical via rubber balls and small blocks of wood. Three placed under the speakers - 2 at the front and one at the rear. This got rid of the bass rumble, but did nothing for the horns. It also got rid of about 3db of bass response. Next tried the balls with one in the front and 2 at the rear - much the same. Then tried different materials under the speakers incl solid blocks of wood, rubber matting and combinations of the two. Agfter much huffing and puffing doing all this alone, along with several near hernias , I ended up with two small blocks of wood at the rear corners, resting on the 4 inch round hard rubber kids cricket balls I found at a toy shop.

    For the front, I struck on a solid stainless steel doorstop, of which I have many, having purchased them from the local Aldi's dicount supermarket a year or two ago. If you dont know of them, they are a range of very heavy machined cones of Stainless Steel. There are about 3 different types I have found, some shorter and wider that the others. All come with rubber rings around the outside (to prevent the door banging on them I presume) and with a rubber mat on one end. The other end is pointed or rounded to varying degree's. They weigh about 5 Lb each I guess. Been using them for component damping on amps etc etc

    Anyway, I found that one of these placed under the front of the cabinet, at just the right height, directly below the baffle in conjunction with the balls etc at the rear has worked wonders. Not just for the bass response, which is getting close to what I had before, but also for the horns. The sound is now purer with no "honk" at all - even with no attenuation to the throats at all !

    I mention this little journey in the hope others might find it useful. Apart from a lot of sweating and swearing, there was very little cost involved and the result was very pleasing.

    Thanks to all those that took the time to offer assistance - greatly appreciated as always.

    Good listening to you all.

    Cheers

    'Nutz
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

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