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Thread: 4350 Newbie

  1. #46
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeman View Post
    Hi Audionutz: I saw your post some days ago but was not able to add my two cents into your questions about your 4350's. You might post the serial numbers from the baffle foil cals. This will confirm their age with a high degree of accuracy. Like John already said, the early black baffle 4350's came EXCLUSIVELY with the white aquaplas coated 2230A woofers.

    The first version of the 4350, introduced in mid to late 1973, came with the white woofers 2230A and the foil cal says 4350 with a 5 digit serial number and no suffix. The very first models had black baffles on walnut veneer. This is easy to understand as at that time they were producing a couple other models that were also black baffled - 4320, 4330 I believe. Shortly into production they introduced the blue painted baffles that everyone knows. There's no way of telling how many pairs were produced with black baffles but cabinet serial numbers are helping me narrow it down. I have seen several blue baffle pairs with serials in the 10100 range - all with white woofs and early cabinet features. That would suggest that maybe no more than 50 pairs with black baffles were offered.

    The serial numbers of my pair are 10027 and 10029. What are yours?

    The second variation, referred to as the 4350A, had the same 4350 grille badges but the foil cal serial number had an A suffix. This model is most often what you see. The woofer was changed from the 2230A to the 2231A, which had a mass ring installed to replace the cone mass afforded by the aquaplas coating. All other components were the same. I believe also that the 3107 network was continued with little to no modification. The 2405 mount was changed from the split ring to the new 4 bolt square mounting flange. This change came about in mid to late 1974, same time as the 2231A.

    Your cabinets are definately first few months of production with all early features - white grille pegs, square exterior covers over the unused mounting holes, screw heads visible on the baffle for bracing location and mid base box mounting and the split ring mount for the 2405.

    For the 2231A's to be original these cabinets would have to have gone out the door with the 2231A's months later than the cabs were produced, i.e. already into 4350A production, and if so the serial numbers would most likely have the A suffix. The foil cals were serialized and placed on the cabinet as likely the last thing done since the l-Pad could not be mounted with a foil cal already installed.

    If you're sure they are 2231A's then I would suggest that somewhere in the 40 year life the owner installed new woofers - or - this was a pair of cabinets that sat around for a period of time before being turned into a finished produce. In manufacturing this is a very common occurance. Again, let's see the serial numbers.

    Before you posted your find the pair I have is the only pair I had ever seen or knew of. I bought them maybe 4 years ago and have since restored them to original. They came with a quad set of ratty JBL automotive 15" woofers installed but the owner had stored away the original white cone 2230A's, less their decaying lansaloy surrounds. I was lucky and was able to get them all serviced and put back into the cabinets.

    Here is a couple pics of mine for your comparison. They are currently sitting unused along the back wall of my family room but I will eventually move them into playing position again.

    Regards - Rick
    Thanks very much Rick, great to get some further history on these. Your's look almost like the day they were made ! A tribute to your restoration skills, considering what you had to work with I suspect.

    Also, my apologies, but the 15's are 2230A's not 31's as I was led to believe. However, they are obviously not white cone ?? Just goes to show that one should check before believing anything ones told

    Here's the serial numbers on mine ....

    Regards

    'Nutz
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  2. #47
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    As well, Rick - 'nutz's have the darker framed 2202(A or H...?) woofer. Not the original, natural cork color. Does that tell us anything?

    Either these are transitional, as you say, or updated along the way.
    Hi Bo:

    The serial numbers will tell the story

    - early foil cals with early numbers suggest woofers have been changed out at some time. This was a very common practice for speakers in professional use.

    - late foil cals with A suffix serial numbers would suggest that an early pair of cabinets, that were set asside in the factory for some reason (repair, flaw in the finish, etc.) and were then finish assembled during a time when the 2231A's were being used.

    Rick

  3. #48
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    Just ask and you shall receive!!!! Thanks Audionutz. Those numbers are actually higher than several pairs I have seen with Blue Baffles - right near 100 numbers higher than my 10027 and 10029 - Interesting to say the least. This really makes it hard on my research, that was suggesting to me that there were maybe 50 pairs made in black. Now I can only wait (years and years) for some other black/white to show up.

    I would have to bet that the woofers were changed out at some point. Does it matter??? Only if you hope to keep them original. The 2231A is likely a better producer than the 2230A, if you can hear such miniscule differences and I can't.

    Either way this is a rare rare pair of 4350's and a great find. In the 4 years since I found mine I have not seen a pair offered anywhere, let alone Down Under. I hope you keep these and enjoy them. If I can help you in any way please let me know. I do luv the 4350 and all similar variants.

  4. #49
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    Hold the presses! I forgot to ask if the black baffle paint is original or have the baffles possibly been repainted? With a woofer removed, is there black paint oversprayed into the interior or is it blue. Might seem like a stupid question but in my travels buying supposedly original 43XX's I have found all sorts of changes made to them. Just a thought.

  5. #50
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeman View Post
    Hold the presses! I forgot to ask if the black baffle paint is original or have the baffles possibly been repainted? With a woofer removed, is there black paint oversprayed into the interior or is it blue. Might seem like a stupid question but in my travels buying supposedly original 43XX's I have found all sorts of changes made to them. Just a thought.

    Next time I stick my head in, I will be sure to check !!

    Not too worried about the '30 or '31 issue. As you say, the differences are minimal and I certainly dont fell like I'm missing anything "down there", so to speak .......

    Thanks again for all the great info. I knew they were rare, but it's nice to know just "how rare" they might be - not that they'll ever be going anywhere.

    Cheers

    Scott

  6. #51
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info Scott. 2230A's makes more sense. I'm sure that the white recone kits were long gone when it came time to recone. For me, I wanted to maintain their originality so I had the woofs serviced with new spiders, new surrounds, dome caps and cork surround gaskets, and I'll live with the 40 year old electron deficient voice coils. My cabinets had very little damage to them but the nature of the abuse (dinged corners and edges) left me with a re-veneer option as the only way to make them new again. They're otherwise original and I like them a lot.

    Over the years many many 4350's have passed thru the house - originals, restored originals and repros - and the 4350 is my personal favorite of all the big 43XX'ers - each to his own. If I had known about them 20 years ago when they were cheap and nobody wanted them, I'd likely have a house full of them. I bought my Sovereigns in 74 and back then I knew nothing about pro monitors. Who knows - if I had I might well have bought one of the first pairs. My sovs now reside along a low wall in the bedroom with no complaints from the boss. I'd never get away with putting my holy grail 4350's in their place.

    Please keep me posted on any new info you uncover with your 4350's. I've been collecting 4350 data for a long time, trying to determine variations and production numbers.

    Rick

  7. #52
    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Audionutz View Post
    Defintely 2231a's in 'em too. One was pulled to inpsect by the first potential buyer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Audionutz View Post
    Also, my apologies, but the 15's are 2230A's not 31's as I was led to believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by saeman View Post
    2230A's makes more sense. I'm sure that the white recone kits were long gone when it came time to recone.
    But they look like they were reconed with maybe a 2235 kit? That might have happened if they were done more recently.

    Scott...

    When you next pull the woofers, look on the back of the cone(s) - they should have markings indicating what kit they were. That should also be indicated on the Jands' work order too. I'm still wondering if they put new diaphragms into the 2440's.

  8. #53
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Did anyone ask about the blue baffle? I must have missed that.


    Widget

  9. #54
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Did anyone ask about the blue baffle? I must have missed that.


    Widget
    Asked but not yet answered Widget. I'll have a look inside next time and also check if the re-cone number's showing.

    Cheers

    'Nutz

  10. #55
    Phil Jeffery
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    Hi Scott,

    I hadn't noticed this thread....I came across it when the notification email arrived when someone posted at Lindsay's original FS thread.

    Congrats on your 4350s; I'd heard you snagged them! I had checked them out earlier in the piece. I'd say it would've been me who Lindsay had mentioned had viewed one of the bass drivers. I had made mention of the 2230A back then, see http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...30a#post247988 and the fact that they must've had a subsequent recone. What are you going to do though? The early Aquaplas recone kit probably never even made it to Australia, let alone being available decades later!

    I had a feeling at the time that the finish of the baffles were slightly different; one was a slightly tacky "Nextel" type finish, the other more of a matt black. Is that right? I was spending more time chin-wagging than taking notice of things like that at the time (interesting guys to talk to, eh?).

    Anyway, good to see they're being appreciated; I ain't jealous..I ain't jealous........the hell I ain't!!

    Regards,
    Phil

  11. #56
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    This place really is full of JBL nuts - not one mention of the rare specially made plexiglass Thorens TT!

    As well, tell us more about that stereo cabinet. Was it part of the deal with the speakers, and is that a JBL badge on the bottom corner? Do the shelves stack?

    Nice speakers too! I can only imagine what the bass is like from a pair of 15s. It would be interesting to know what 'Jands' shop did to them a few years ago, in terms of recones and/or replacement diaphragms.

  12. #57
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Jeffery View Post
    Hi Scott,

    I hadn't noticed this thread....I came across it when the notification email arrived when someone posted at Lindsay's original FS thread.

    Congrats on your 4350s; I'd heard you snagged them! I had checked them out earlier in the piece. I'd say it would've been me who Lindsay had mentioned had viewed one of the bass drivers. I had made mention of the 2230A back then, see http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...30a#post247988 and the fact that they must've had a subsequent recone. What are you going to do though? The early Aquaplas recone kit probably never even made it to Australia, let alone being available decades later!

    I had a feeling at the time that the finish of the baffles were slightly different; one was a slightly tacky "Nextel" type finish, the other more of a matt black. Is that right? I was spending more time chin-wagging than taking notice of things like that at the time (interesting guys to talk to, eh?).

    Anyway, good to see they're being appreciated; I ain't jealous..I ain't jealous........the hell I ain't!!

    Regards,
    Phil

    Hi Phil,

    Yes, they're certainly being appreciated.

    Not real worried about the aquaplas re-cones. The existing ones are in excellent condition, as you know. The difference n the fascias does not worry me greatly either, as they are relatively close serial numbers anyway.

    I suspect they may have been changed from the blue baffle at some stage, which might account for the difference. I have not had my head inside yet to check for overspray, so who knows ?

    Cheers

    Scott
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

  13. #58
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomee View Post
    This place really is full of JBL nuts - not one mention of the rare specially made plexiglass Thorens TT!

    As well, tell us more about that stereo cabinet. Was it part of the deal with the speakers, and is that a JBL badge on the bottom corner? Do the shelves stack?

    Nice speakers too! I can only imagine what the bass is like from a pair of 15s. It would be interesting to know what 'Jands' shop did to them a few years ago, in terms of recones and/or replacement diaphragms.
    Have yet to get the info from from Jands as to what exactly was done, but will post it here when it comes to hand.

    The Thorens Phantasie Turntable was an absolute bonus part of the deal. Although it may pain some to hear I have not even connected it yet .... sure makes a nice visual addition though

    The cabinet was also part of the deal and yes, thats a genuine JBL metal badge on it. The shelves also separate and are stackable - fitted with nice heavy brass posts to lock them together. The original owner went to a lot of trouble to make sure it all worked well together. The twin Crown D-150's are fitted into their own enclosures in the base at the rear. As you can see the JBL crossover was also very nicely custom mounted.

    Bass can be described as supremely adequate ( to put it mildly )

    Cheers

    Scott
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

  14. #59
    Senior Member Audionutz's Avatar
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    Horns etc

    Happy New Year to one and all !

    Well, some time has passed now and I have had a wonderful time getting to know the 4350's with various equipment.

    Having just moved house and now in a slightly smaller room, I find that the speakers are best placed on edge. Better time alignment, less bass problems (in this room) better imaging etc etc.

    However .... I now find that the 2440 sometimes exibits a certain "nasal" or "honky" tone. Especially with female vocals it seems and some horn instruments.

    Various discussions with other users seem to suggest there are several remedies;

    1. Physical attenuation via screens/lenses or a variety of material placed in the throats.

    2. A good quality equaliser in the signal chain.

    3. Testing and identifying the actual frequency causing the problem, then attenuation via one of the above.

    I have no wish to open the speakers to insert filters or mod the crossovers at this stage, so am interested in what others have found when faced with this ?

    Any suggestions greatly appreciated ?

    Cheers

    'Nutz
    Thats not a speaker ......*That's* a Speaker !
    (With apologies to Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee)

  15. #60
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    G'day Mr. Nutz. Going back through the thread, I may have missed where
    you say you have (or don't have) the "2308" lens that is intended to be placed
    between you and the horn.

    If not, I would humbly suggest starting there.

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