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Thread: JBL Synthesis - Room Design and Treatment

  1. #31
    Senior Member Valentin's Avatar
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    golden Ratios are not a good way of knowing if your going to have good or bad sound

    there are too many variables

    in this calculations you take for granted that all modes will be exited and in the same degree and that the listener will here all these modes

    this is far from reality since the speaker are not set in the 3 way corners and the listener ears are not in the corners were all modes interact

    second your room is not a perfect rectangle and does not have perfect reflecting surface so the distribution is far from being as in sou ch papers

    it is allot more important to place the speaker correctly and too have good acoustic treatment diffusion and absorption in the correct places

    ti dome you should buy Floyd Toole book Sound Reproduction is has a lot more knowledge probably more than your contractor and it is an easy read

    the sdec 4000 is an incredible tool specially if it is used as a finishing touch

  2. #32
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    I should have some pictures to post this weekend of the ongoing modifications in the HT room. We've been doing a search of the blueprints to get some insight into the structural design down there. It appears there might be a column that runs from the foundation through all three floors and up to the gable in the attic. This would be a major factor, both in removing the wall to join the two rooms and in the possible placement of the S4Ai units.
    Out.

  3. #33
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    It appears there might be a column that runs from the foundation through all three floors and up to the gable in the attic.
    Ouch!! That can get really expensive. Sounds like it could be load bearing. Are the floor joists or headers tied to it?? Is it a Plumbing/Electical/Heat/Air conduit?? That could suck as well. Well good luck I hope it is something you can easilly move without major renovations.

    Rob
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  4. #34
    JBL 4645
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    Looks like the Dome is making small waves on AVS as someone here posted this or it might be a natural JBL voyeur peeking around. Thing is Dome how far have you got so far is it starting to come together or is it still boxed up?

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=866797&page=180

  5. #35
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    Sympathy for the Synthesis®

    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Ouch!! That can get really expensive. Sounds like it could be load bearing. Are the floor joists or headers tied to it?? Is it a Plumbing/Electical/Heat/Air conduit?? That could suck as well. Well good luck I hope it is something you can easilly move without major renovations.

    Rob
    Quote Originally Posted by JBL 4645 View Post
    Looks like the Dome is making small waves on AVS as someone here posted this or it might be a natural JBL voyeur peeking around. Thing is Dome how far have you got so far is it starting to come together or is it still boxed up?
    Well, it's official:
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    Out.

  6. #36
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    Sympathy for the Synthesis®

    It turns out the wall not only has a load bearing column in it right down to the foundation, it has TWO load bearing columns.

    Oh, and did I mention that underneath the drywall the entire thing is covered in 3/4 plywood to act as a shear wall for earthquake protection?

    So, when we bought the place and I ask the contractor, who retrofitted it and installed the Radon removal system, if that was a load bearing wall, why did he say, "No, it's not. You can take it out."?

    His recent reply: "Oh, that wall. I thought you meant the false wall we put in front of it." Effing moron!
    Last edited by Titanium Dome; 04-04-2009 at 01:17 PM. Reason: grammar
    Out.

  7. #37
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    So now, we just finished re-drywalling what was ripped out and cleaning up the dusty, gritty mess that it all left. Later, I'll undertake the sanding, finish coating, sanding, priming, sanding, and painting, Hooray.

    This is preferable to the estimated $40,000-50,000 and 45 days to bring in steel beams and jacks to hold up the house, dig out the load bearing wall and columns, pour new foundations, pour new floors, erect structural steel to bear the load, remove the temporary beams and jacks, refinish the walls and ceiling that will need to be removed to install the the support beams and the permanent beams, and have the mess hauled away.

    NOT gonna happen!

    According to JBL, this system will work in rooms from 1500 cu. ft. to 16,000 cu. ft. So I can put it in a 2,505 cu. ft. room or a 2,260 cu. ft. room. The 2,505 room has better dimensions (8'8"x15'5"x16'6"); the other room is basically a 14'6" square with 10'9" ceilings.

    Any suggestions?
    Out.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Hoerninger's Avatar
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    Proper installing for improved intelligibility, best 3D room acoustics included:
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  9. #39
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    So, no way to work around the columns?

    That sucks... not only will your space be smaller than intended, but the noise transmission issues. Oh well, at least you have options.


    Widget

  10. #40
    Senior Member MikeBrewster77's Avatar
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    Yup, that there's a load bearing false wall we put in front - it's made from magical sheet rock and NASA grade spackle.... Seriously - why would anyone think you were inquiring about the load-bearing status of a false wall???

    Anyway, sorry to hear about that! It sounds like you have options to work around it, though, from your follow-up post. I'm sure wehn all is said and done, the sound will be spectacular enough to take your mind off of the room architecture

    P.S., OT - your GF's got a nice car!

    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    It turns out the wall not only has a load bearing column in it right down to the foundation, it has TWO load bearing columns.

    Oh, and did I mention that underneath the drywall the entire thing is covered in 3/4 plywood to act as a shear wall for earthquake protection?

    So, when we bought the place and I ask the contractor, who retrofitted it and installed the Radon removal system, if that was a load bearing wall, why did he say, "No, it's not. You can take it out."?

    His recent reply: "Oh, that wall. I thought you meant the false wall we put in front of it." Effing moron!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    So, no way to work around the columns?

    That sucks... not only will your space be smaller than intended, but the noise transmission issues. Oh well, at least you have options.


    Widget
    Well, we'll deal with most of the sound transmission issues through rebuilding the false wall to be detached from the load bearing wall. It'll make the room a little narrower, but that will help with modes.

    We can put one riser in as well, which will help break things up a bit, and the treatments folks have a pretty good handle on the room redesign already. I'll get more coverage for less money, because the room is smaller.

    We have a great idea for an equipment closet that will not intrude on the room, so there's a net gain in room volume there.

    The wall and ceiling painting will have to be redone, since it was done in "back of the HT" colors, and now it will have the front of the HT as well.

    The ceiling lights will have to stay as they are. I don't want to pay for that again. I may switch out some bulbs to create a different balance.

    The electrical will require some mods, but we hadn't actually run the wiring for the equipment panel pending removal of the wall. The speaker wiring isn't in yet, as we're still waiting on the in-wall cable.
    Out.

  12. #42
    Senior Member Hoerninger's Avatar
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  13. #43
    JBL 4645
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    Why not use cable trunking its effective and doesn’t cost the Earth and the hassles of cutting into the wall what mess it makes, and what if you wanted to change cables, with cable trunking just strip off the facial front and replace with new cable.

  14. #44
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    The S4Ai speakers for the sides and rears are in-wall units. Plus they require four conductors each, so it's better to have them in the walls all the way.
    Out.

  15. #45
    JBL 4645
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    So you mean to say you’re fixing them flush with the wall surfaces?

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