How much longer before JBL runs dry in US?

[ka7niq]

I am not sure I understand where you are going with this... I have used a modern measurement system to measure new and old drivers and if the old ones really are NOS or are rebuilt they measure quite closely to the original specs... the vintage drivers that I have randomly sampled from ebay rarely come close to original spec.

As for comparing older technologies to the newer ones, say an aluminum diaphragmed 2441 vs. a Be diaphragmed 476Be, the new ones do exhibit lower distortion, greater bandwidth, more linear response etc... are newer components better? For many applications, certainly... do they render the older favorites obsolete, I don't think so. The original Western Electric designs that all of these drivers have evolved from were surprisingly good, especially when you realize that it has taken decades of study to realize just how good they were.

Widget

Agreed.
I pulled many a Western System out of Theatres and sold it to the Japanese, before I LISTENED to the stuff.
An ALL Western Electric System is one of the TOP 5 systems I have EVER heard.
I lived in Seattle, and drove up to Vancouver, Canada to hear it.
It BLEW my mind in every area, except Imaging.
There are SOME older designs that are still good, even by todays standards.
I recently heard my older Electrovoice Interface D's I stupidly sold years ago.
I cried all the way home
IMHO, JBL is STILL making a lot of good stuff.
Remember, potential JBL Customers are READING this Forum ?
IF we want JBL to survive, we must not alienate them by making it a "bad thing " to own NEW JBL equipment"
It puzzles me HOW anyone can quote Greg Timbers in their signature, yet endanger his JOB by suggesting NEW JBL stuff is "junk" ???

[Tom Brennan]

Remember, potential JBL Customers are READING this Forum ?
IF we want JBL to survive, we must not alienate them by making it a "bad thing " to own NEW JBL equipment"

Whether or not JBL survives is of no concern to me. That they don't make (or make available) a speaker I'd consider buying is their problem not mine.

[Mr. Widget]

Whether or not JBL survives is of no concern to me.

Ok.

That they don't make (or make available) a speaker I'd consider buying is their problem not mine.

Personal preference is just that. I heard the Array 1400s up against a similarly priced pair of Martin Logans... I thought the JBL had a far more natural sound... I was quite surprised at just how "honky" the Logans sounded and their top end was murky at best... but then, that is why there are so many choices.


Widget

[scott fitlin]

Whether or not one likes NEW JBL or older, is a matter of preference. In many aspects, MODERN components outdo the older designs, and in some cases many people like the sound of the vintage components, and I do too! BUT I also like the new components as well, used properly, in many applications.

For sure, one thing to always bear in mind, MUSIC today is vastly different from what it was thirty years ago, heck, even just ten years ago. In my system, the way it was set up ten years ago, just can't reproduce the extreme bottom end in todays music without becoming muddy, or just plain ol running out of steam.

I find current JBL HIGH END and PRO products to be the BEST of what's out there, IMO, and again, IMO, reproduces todays music properly, and makes awesome sound.

Then, and this is specific to my application and end use, I am sometimes forced to change the use of vintage products, to newer, current products, because of serviceability issues. IF I had wanted to keep using Gauss woofers, which I happen to have loved in the 70,s and 80,s, what do I do when something breaks and there just are no parts available?

OTOH, let me tell you, I LOVE my VINTAGE JBL horns and tweeters, works wonderfully well still to this day, but the current woofers, and modern high power amps, make OUTSTANDING LOW END!

For me, that JBL still makes parts for many vintage components, and that the older gear still works well, AND MAKES GREAT modern gear, is a testament to a legendary audio maker.

If anything, and IMHO, this earns JBL my high marks, and praise, not reasons to trash them!

[robertbartsch]

Scotty:
I agree.

Someone made the comment here that new professional compression drivers are arguably better than the older vintage stuff but that the new pro woofers do not make good high fidelity systems.

Really?

[4313B]

With the demise of JBL Consumer in Woodbury and the fact that Crown is now going to take over support for JBL Consumer Products my money has to go to the legacy JBL Pro systems, especially the nearly fully supported 4344, 4345, 4355, 4430 and 4435 loudspeaker systems... I suspect that the Japanese market is completely responsible for JBL Pro maintaining legacy support. Not even systems like the newer 4344 Mk II are fully supported any longer, granted that is a JBL Consumer Product rather than JBL Pro.

I have the very latest and greatest JBL's but I don't have much hope that they will be serviceable should something tragic happen to them, especially since they are DIY instead of Finished Goods. While JBL Pro Manufacturing makes the 1500AL, 1200FE, 435BE, 476BE and 045BE, JBL Pro Marketing, JBL Pro Sales and JBL Pro Service have no idea what any of those things are, hence no support.

[Rusnzha]

For me, that JBL still makes parts for many vintage components, and that the older gear still works well, AND MAKES GREAT modern gear, is a testament to a legendary audio maker.

If anything, and IMHO, this earns JBL my high marks, and praise, not reasons to trash them!

[ka7niq]

Whether or not JBL survives is of no concern to me. That they don't make (or make available) a speaker I'd consider buying is their problem not mine.

Really Tom ?
You would not consider a JBL Array ?
Or a K2 ?

[ka7niq]

With the demise of JBL Consumer in Woodbury and the fact that Crown is now going to take over support for JBL Consumer Products my money has to go to the legacy JBL Pro systems, especially the nearly fully supported 4344, 4345, 4355, 4430 and 4435 loudspeaker systems... I suspect that the Japanese market is completely responsible for JBL Pro maintaining legacy support. Not even systems like the newer 4344 Mk II are fully supported any longer, granted that is a JBL Consumer Product rather than JBL Pro.

I have the very latest and greatest JBL's but I don't have much hope that they will be serviceable should something tragic happen to them, especially since they are DIY instead of Finished Goods. While JBL Pro Manufacturing makes the 1500AL, 1200FE, 435BE, 476BE and 045BE, JBL Pro Marketing, JBL Pro Sales and JBL Pro Service have no idea what any of those things are, hence no support.

What are the speakers you have ?

[ka7niq]

Agreed

[LowPhreak]

Really Tom ?
You would not consider a JBL Array ?
Or a K2 ?

What are the speakers you have ?

Has it occurred to you that an Array or K2 might not be the right speakers for everyone, or that they're just too expensive for some?

It seems like you're trolling again or are just bored. Knock it off.

[BMWCCA]

You would not consider a JBL Array ?

I almost pulled the trigger on the 1400 Array. That trauma is well-documented here. Just to break them down for transport meant having to destroy $50 in badges to dismount the horns, with no guaranty of availability for any subsequent moves. Instead I decided to pay about the same money for a reproduction pair of 4345s, with all new components, because I know the crew here can help me keep them singing for the remainder of my life. :dont-know

Heck, that's just me. Proud to be a Luddite. But believe it or not, my wife was easier to sell on these huge boxes than she was on the photos of the oddly shaped zebra-skinned Arrays. Plus they recommended a 15" sub to go with the 14" Array. And this is what "Support" offers for a current model JBL:

336321-001 Woofer $285.52 This part is discontinued with no substitutes available. We apologize for any inconvenience.
339009-001 TWT UHF-045TI 1400 ARRAY(N 361016-001) $331.35 NOT AVAILABLE Add to wish list
339976-001 GASKET, UHF SK2-1000, K2S9900 $3.42 This part is discontinued with no substitutes available. We apologize for any inconvenience.
854-00000-12 BOLT 1/4-20X3/4 HEX TAP 1400 ARRAY $1.98 NOT AVAILABLE Add to wish list

[4313B]

And this is what "Support" offers for a current model JBL:

We'll see what shakes out now that Crown is taking over. This "support" thing has gotten totally out of hand...

[BMWCCA]

We'll see what shakes out now that Crown is taking over. This "support" thing has gotten totally out of hand...

In my limited experience, Crown's support in the part department is at least equal to the friendly folks at JBL Pro in professionalism and willingness to help. I have nothing good to say about the JBL-NY consumer group support since they were never able to supply anything but a price for parts I wanted. Pro had them, shipped them quickly, and charged me far less than the price quoted by JBL consumer support for the same part. Perhaps consolidation will create some economic benefit for Harman as well as improving service to the consumer.

[4313B]

In my limited experience, Crown's support in the part department is at least equal to the friendly folks at JBL Pro in professionalism and willingness to help.

JBL Pro has always rocked. Never any problems in dealing with them since their inception.

***

Evidently Crown is taking over JBL Specialty Products (Everest II, Array Series, Synthesis, etc) as well as Lexicon, Levinson, etc.
Everything else (Harman/Kardon, JBL Consumer, Infinity, etc.) will be outsourced to Wipro.