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Thread: 2214H tech sheet?

  1. #1
    Senior Member pierce's Avatar
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    Post 2214H tech sheet?

    I have been unable to locate any sort of technical data sheet on the 2214H 12" woofer as used in the L100T(3), 4425, and I dunno how many other configurations since the mid 80s. I've browsed the stuff on jbl/harman's pages, and I've browsed the stuff in both the Library and the Tech Ref sections here (and, boy, sure would be nice if these were somehow better integrated and indexed!).

    I would think this would be a good addition to the tech library sections here?

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    That's becasue there isn't one. They typically only do a tech sheet on a driver that is sold seperately. The T/S for that driver is available in the Reference Section of the Library.

    Rob
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    Senior Member pierce's Avatar
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    ah. yet they made 2214H woofers for quite a long time, something like 1985 til a few years ago (at least, there is no trace of them in the 2008 catalogs, but the 4425 that uses it is in the 2003 catalog).

    I suppose there's no master cross reference table that lists what components are in what speakers? Like, I've not been able to determine just what the woofer in the 4412 is, I -thought- it was a 2214H but I've been told its not, and none of the 4412/10/08 data sheets I've found seem to say just what model drivers they use.. Edit: confirmed on another thread, teh 4412A are 128H


    ah, well. Here's the 2214H's T/S parameters at least, and the 128H-1 used on the 4412(A)



    |.. . .| 2214H | 128H | units . .|

    | fs . | 23 . .| 20 . | Hz . . . |
    | Qts .| .24 . | .24 .| . . . . .|
    | Qms .| 10.5 .| 7.0 .| . . . . .|
    | Qes .| .25 . | .25 .| . . . . .|
    | Vas .| 7.9 . | 9.9 .| ft^3 . . |
    | Eff .| 1.1 . | .86 .| % . . . .|
    | Pe . | 200 . | 100 .| watts . .|
    | Xmax | .26 . | .31 .| inch . . |
    | VD . | 21 . .| 25 . | in^3 . . |
    | Re . | 5.6 . | 5.7 .| ohms . . |
    | Le . | 1.3 . | 0.6 .| mH . . . |
    | SD . | 81.7 .| 81.7 | in^2 . . |
    | Dia .| 10.2 .| 10.2 | in . . . |
    | Bl . | 16.0 .| 16.0 | Newt/Amp |
    | Mms .| 90 . .| 70 . | grams . .|
    | flux | 1.07__| 1.07 | tesla____|

  4. #4
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I suppose there's no master cross reference table that lists what components are in what speakers?
    In the older catalogs when they still sold individual drivers in the components series they had a cross-reference table that showed what driver went where. The closest to that are the Family tables on the JBL Pro site. Those can be quite useful.

    You just have to learn how to wade through all this stuff. There is quite a bit of information on the JBL Pro Site.

    Rob

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    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierce View Post
    I have been unable to locate any sort of technical data sheet on the 2214H 12" woofer as used in the L100T(3), 4425, and I dunno how many other configurations since the mid 80s. I've browsed the stuff on jbl/harman's pages, and I've browsed the stuff in both the Library and the Tech Ref sections here (and, boy, sure would be nice if these were somehow better integrated and indexed!).

    I would think this would be a good addition to the tech library sections here?
    I took pictures when I pulled down my new-to-me L100Ts recently to redo the surround on the woofer.

    top is a side-rear view of the 2214H speaker before I reworked it ...
    (the parts on the coffee table behind it are for other projects).

    Below that is the pair of them just after replacing the foam with the 30 Hz tone setup ...

    If you need more pix, let me know - I'll open them up again in a few weeks when I reinstall the crossovers (being upgraded to T3 spec)
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    The closest to that are the Family tables on the JBL Pro site.
    Someday I'll have to finish up the Consumer version. There's a bunch missing that I have in other, very old Quattro Pro files that I probably can't even access anymore unless I can find some install floppies from the late 80's. I think my wife threw my millions of dollars of old worthless software and their plethora of updates away a year or two ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierce View Post
    I would think this would be a good addition to the tech library sections here?
    We were going to build a master database a few years back with the tons of data I have as well as what we can remember (Mark, Greg, David, myself, etc.) but Don and I lost interest fairly early on. Don hasn't screwed around with the Library since 2004 due to broken software. Oh well... :dont-know I think a wee bit of hate mail went a long way towards killing the passion, at least publicly.

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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Nice list!

    We should put that in the Reference Section so it doesn't get burried in this thread and lost.


    Don hasn't screwed around with the Library since 2004 due to broken software. Oh well... :dont-know
    Well at least we can enter new material into the Library Annex.



    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Nice list!

    We should put that in the Reference Section so it doesn't get burried in this thread and lost.

    Rob
    It's nicer when compiled into a database though where queries can be run. I have something like forty or fifty spreadsheets that I need to merge into one. And then I have to actually check every single entry for accuracy and I get real bored doing that after, oh about 30 seconds.

  10. #10
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    It's nicer when compiled into a database though where queries can be run.
    Your right but when's that going to happen?? We might as well put up what we have available to us. That spreadsheet is a big help and it certainly is a lot better than nothing.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Senior Member DavidF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierce View Post
    "...- it was a 2214H but I've been told its not, and none of the 4412/10/08 data sheets I've found seem to say just what model drivers they use.. Edit: confirmed on another thread, teh 4412A are 128H..."
    The 128H-1 was the model used. The 128H is similar but not close enough to freely interchange. There is some discussion on the differences around here, somewhere.

    What narrow shady road are stopped on in your avalar? Wondering if I too have been there.
    David F
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  12. #12
    Senior Member pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidF View Post
    The 128H-1 was the model used. The 128H is similar but not close enough to freely interchange. There is some discussion on the differences around here, somewhere.

    What narrow shady road are stopped on in your avalar? Wondering if I too have been there.
    Another thread indicated, the 128H was white coned, while the 128H-1 is black, otherwise acoustically and mechanically identical.

    re: Avatar... That's a back road near Scotts Valley, California by the name of Bean Creek Rd..

    oh, and HJames... I've got a pair of 2214H in my L100T, they are being repaired as we type this... This all started because I was trying to figure out just what other speakers used these, so far all I can confirm are the LxxT(3) series, the 4425, XPL200A, and possibly some subwoofers. The other speakers that I *thought* may have had 2214H in fact have 128H(-1), such as 4412(A), various others.

  13. #13
    Senior Member pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierce View Post
    ... Here's the 2214H's T/S parameters at least, and the 128H-1 used on the 4412(A)


    |.. . .| 2214H | 128H | units . .|

    | fs . | 23 . .| 20 . | Hz . . . |
    | Qts .| .24 . | .24 .| . . . . .|
    | Qms .| 10.5 .| 7.0 .| . . . . .|
    | Qes .| .25 . | .25 .| . . . . .|
    | Vas .| 7.9 . | 9.9 .| ft^3 . . |
    | Eff .| 1.1 . | .86 .| % . . . .|
    | Pe . | 200 . | 100 .| watts . .|
    | Xmax | .26 . | .31 .| inch . . |
    | VD . | 21 . .| 25 . | in^3 . . |
    | Re . | 5.6 . | 5.7 .| ohms . . |
    | Le . | 1.3 . | 0.6 .| mH . . . |
    | SD . | 81.7 .| 81.7 | in^2 . . |
    | Dia .| 10.2 .| 10.2 | in . . . |
    | Bl . | 16.0 .| 16.0 | Newt/Amp |
    | Mms .| 90 . .| 70 . | grams . .|
    | flux | 1.07__| 1.07 | tesla____|
    so. attempting to (mis)interpret this data, based on my rudimentary understanding of acoustics and physics (and almost total unfamiliarity with T/S parameters).


    • both speakers have the same flux density, same cone size, almost identical coil resistance, identical electrical and total Q factors (dampening?)



    • the 128H has somewhat longer excursion, and a slightly lower resonance frequency, yet a lower moving mass (these last two seem contradictory without other data). the longer excursion means it can move somewhat more air. lower mechanical Q means (I think) it dampens out faster.



    • the 2214H can handle much higher power, has twice the inductance voice coil (likely more turns of a heavier gauge, which also accounts for the higher mass?), and somewhat higher efficiency.


    I think the sum total of all this is that the 128H(-1) is likely a little better woofer for very low frequencies, but the 2214H's increased power handling means it likely can play LOUDER. and, they are close enough that you can probably substitute the 2214h for a 128H and not miss much, although the doubled mH inductance may require the crossover to be tweaked some.

  14. #14
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    they are close enough that you can probably substitute the 2214h for a 128H and not miss much, although the doubled mH inductance may require the crossover to be tweaked some.
    These kinds of suppositions probably belong in DIY instead of Technical Help. I'm highly confident that Greg would never endorse substituting 128H's with 2214H's, and vice versa, in his system designs.
    Another thread indicated, the 128H was white coned, while the 128H-1 is black, otherwise acoustically and mechanically identical.
    1985 was the last time I discussed the differences with the designer and I believe he said that he tightened up the suspension a bit in the 128H-1 in addition to changing to dark aquaplas so as to look better in the 120Ti.

  15. #15
    Senior Member pierce's Avatar
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    I meant to state that previous more as a question, asking for confirmation or correction of my hypothesis, sorry.

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