3 way Altec 19's

[sbjacob]

lower points is "honking'. The horns honk like a cars horn attempting to produce lows requiring more surface area than the diaphragm has.

I am curious about this so the 909 diaphram is the same size as the 806's and I was told by GPA that crossing the 909 at 500Hz would be fine then there must be other factors than diaphram surface area?

[JBLRaiser]

I am curious about this so the 909 diaphram is the same size as the 806's and I was told by GPA that crossing the 909 at 500Hz would be fine then there must be other factors than diaphram surface area?

it just "honks"

[Zilch]

811B is a 1.2 kHz horn.

Push it lower, and increasing "horny" coloration develops.

Run it on an active crossover with adjustable highpass frequency and listen for yourself.

Similarly, 511 is only "good" down to 800 Hz.

Yes, the drivers will play there, but with acceptable sonic quality...? :dont-know

[sbjacob]

it just "honks"

Oh sorry I thought you were saying it would damage the driver from the honking.

[sbjacob]

811B is a 1.2 kHz horn.

Push it lower, and increasing "horny" coloration develops.

Run it on an active crossover with adjustable highpass frequency and listen for yourself.

Similarly, 511 is only "good" down to 800 Hz.

Yes, the drivers will play there, but with acceptable sonic quality...? :dont-know

Wow I thought it was good down to 500Hz.This is very interesting as I have seen many post showing it was good to 500Hz and some charts on ALK's web site showing that as he was a big fan of the 511B horn as a upgrade on the Klipschorn until he started building his own horns.

[Zilch]

Much like JBL's exponentials, you can track their progressive derating over time in the manufacturers' literature. Again, you can easily make your own determination by varying the highpass frequency while listening.

As others have also suggested, it's mighty hard to get at the facts regarding vintage Altec. Read the "Babies" thread as an example of what we went through getting to the bottom of Valencias.

There's nothing wrong with liking or even preferring this "Legacy" gear, but merely presuming audio engineering has been asleep at the wheel for forty or fifty years does not rationally reconcile the facts, once they are known....

[sbjacob]

Much like JBL's exponentials, you can track their progressive derating over time in the manufacturers' literature. Again, you can easily make your own determination by varying the highpass frequency while listening.

As others have also suggested, it's mighty hard to get at the facts regarding vintage Altec. Read the "Babies" thread as an example of what we went through getting to the bottom of Valencias.

There's nothing wrong with liking or even preferring this "Legacy" gear, but merely presuming audio engineering has been asleep at the wheel for forty or fifty years does not rationally reconcile the facts, once they are known....

I agree with liking "Legacy" gear however we are are memories and everyone has a memory associated with the sound of legacy gear therefore time is no longer a factor in regards to technology.

[felixx]

Zilch...what do you think about these 1" horns:
http://www2.117.ne.jp/~y-s/SS500.SS300katarog-e.html
The responce is with TAD2001 driver into SS-500.
The crossover was into 800hz.Regarding the measurements of this horn,do you think the 800hz point is possible?
I really love that look of these horns....but too expensive for my pokets.

[Earl K]

Wow ! Stunningly Beautiful ! Those are a great looking horns .
I love the native "Asada" cherry wood ( from Hokkaido no less ) !
( SS-500 is pictured above )

Thanks for the link felixx !

>< cheers

ps ; & the SS-300 pics are below

[originaltubino]

Lovely to look upon, heaven to touch,
It's a real shame they got to COST SO MUCH.

300,000 yen = over $3000 USD

I posted this link on the Facebook group I just created, called Wood Horns for Audio!

[sbjacob]

Still experimenting on the crossover points on these as they are still in my garage as I am building another set of the same bass bins for each so I will be running 2 15" in each.I hooked up a old Sansui receiver to test them out there.I have a Crown amp and a Adcom preamp inside to run them when they are complete.

Second set of bass bins done need to do finishing work and then they go into the house.

[sbjacob]

Second set of bass bins done need to do finishing work and then they go into the house.

Crossovers done

[Doc Mark]

Hey, SBJacob,

I am not an audio engineer, nor have I ever been one. But, I was a professional musician for almost 30 years, and so have more than a little experience with how JBL and Altec goodies sound in various applications. Back in the day, I heard many Altec systems crossed over at 500 HZ. They sounded good to me.... UNTIL I heard those same systems crossed over at 800 HZ, and even 1,200 HZ! The clarity of sound, and the lack of coloration was very apparent, and much more to my liking!

As for JBL stuff, I own two 2405H slot tweeters, which I got from our old keyboard player. He sold off all his stuff when he got out of the business, and I ended up with a good bit of it, being his room mate for many years whilst we were on the road. But, when he used the 2405H's, he crossed them over at 7,000 HZ, using a JBL crossover. Yes, "in those days", JBL recommended crossing that tweeter over at 7KHZ. But, I'll tell you something, back then, I HATED the sound of that tweeter!!! It was spitty, hissy, and hurt my ears tremendously!!! I only bought the ones he had, because they came in a complete system. Had he offered them to me separately, I would have walked on by and not been interested!! Fast forward a few years, and guess what? I heard those same tweeters crossed over at 8.5 KHZ, and then at 10 KHZ, and they sounded simply amazing!! I loved their silky, smooth sound, and the only thing that had changed was the crossover frequency!! So, yes, they did "work" at the lower frequency, but they sounded much better crossed over a bit higher.

For what it's worth, your system should sound much better if you raise the crossover frequency of your horns and CD's. The Altec horns will like it better, and will sound better, and so will your Altec compression drivers. I've been there, I heard that, and I'm betting you will too. Again, I'm not a pro engineer, just a former musician, so my opinion may only be worth what you have paid to read it. But, there it is.... Take care, have fun, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[sbjacob]

Hey, SBJacob,

I am not an audio engineer, nor have I ever been one. But, I was a professional musician for almost 30 years, and so have more than a little experience with how JBL and Altec goodies sound in various applications. Back in the day, I heard many Altec systems crossed over at 500 HZ. They sounded good to me.... UNTIL I heard those same systems crossed over at 800 HZ, and even 1,200 HZ! The clarity of sound, and the lack of coloration was very apparent, and much more to my liking!

As for JBL stuff, I own two 2405H slot tweeters, which I got from our old keyboard player. He sold off all his stuff when he got out of the business, and I ended up with a good bit of it, being his room mate for many years whilst we were on the road. But, when he used the 2405H's, he crossed them over at 7,000 HZ, using a JBL crossover. Yes, "in those days", JBL recommended crossing that tweeter over at 7KHZ. But, I'll tell you something, back then, I HATED the sound of that tweeter!!! It was spitty, hissy, and hurt my ears tremendously!!! I only bought the ones he had, because they came in a complete system. Had he offered them to me separately, I would have walked on by and not been interested!! Fast forward a few years, and guess what? I heard those same tweeters crossed over at 8.5 KHZ, and then at 10 KHZ, and they sounded simply amazing!! I loved their silky, smooth sound, and the only thing that had changed was the crossover frequency!! So, yes, they did "work" at the lower frequency, but they sounded much better crossed over a bit higher.

For what it's worth, your system should sound much better if you raise the crossover frequency of your horns and CD's. The Altec horns will like it better, and will sound better, and so will your Altec compression drivers. I've been there, I heard that, and I'm betting you will too. Again, I'm not a pro engineer, just a former musician, so my opinion may only be worth what you have paid to read it. But, there it is.... Take care, have fun, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish
Doc

After comparing the crossover points I crossed them at 700 and 9000 and you are correct they sound much better as I was told when I first posted them by another member. Thanks much