Soundcraftsmen purchase help

[cadex18]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forum.

I used to be a salesman for their products from 1987 until MTX bought them and annihilated them by the mid 90's.

We were also the main "used" equipment store in New Jersey for several years so I have heard a lot of stuff.

I'm going to talk specifically about the lateral mosfets models in particular.

1st generation (early 80's to mid 90's).

(POWER OUTPUT CONSERVATIVELY STATED BTW).

PRO POWER 8 - (FULL CHASSIS, DUAL FANS, BRIDGING INCLUDED, 1/4" AND BALANCED INPUTS, 12 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, 375W/CH@8R, 600W/CH@4R, 900W/CH@2R, 1200W/MONO@8R, 1800W/MONO@4R).

PM1600 - (FULL CHASSIS, DUAL FANS, BRIDGING INCLUDED, 1/4" AND BALANCED INPUTS, 12 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, 375W/CH@8R, 600W/CH@4R, 900W/CH@2R, 1200W/MONO@8R, 1800W/MONO@4R).

PM840 - (SHOEBOX, 6 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, RCA INPUTS, PCR POWER SUPPLY, FAN COOLED, 205W/CH8R, 315W/CH4R, 275W/CH2R, 600W MONO, EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

PCR800 - (SHOEBOX, 6 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, RCA INPUTS, PCR POWER SUPPLY, FAN COOLED, 205W/CH8R, 315W/CH4R, 275W/CH2R, 600W/MONO EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

PM860 - (SHOEBOX, 6 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, RCA INPUTS, PCR POWER SUPPLY, FAN COOLED, HIGH CURRENT, 205W/CH@8R, 315W/CH@4R, 450W/CH@2R, 600W/MONO@8R, 900W/MONO@4R EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

PRO POWER 4 - (FULL CHASSIS ,LED DISPLAY, 4 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, OUTPUT FOR 4 SPEAKERS, FAN COOLED, 205W/CH @8R, 315W/CH @4R, 450W/CH @2R, EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE, 600W/MONO@8R, 900W/MONO@4R).

PRO POWER 3 - (FULL CHASSIS, 4 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, OUTPUT FOR 4 SPEAKERS, PCR POWER SUPPLY, FAN COOLED, 205W/CH@8R, 315W/CH@4R, 450W/CH@2R, 600W/MONO@8R, 900W/MONO@4R EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

PRO POWER 1 - (SHOEBOX, 4 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, RCA INPUTS, PCR POWER SUPPLY, FAN COOLED, 205W/CH@8R, 315W/CH@4R, 450W/CH@2R, 600W/MONO@8R, 900W/MONO@4R EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

PRO POWER 10 - (FULL CHASSIS 4 CH, 2 PM860S IN ONE PACKAGE, 6 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, DUAL LED DISPLAY, DUAL PCR PS, DUAL FANS, A BEAST, 205W/CH@8R, 315W/CH@4R, 450W/CH@2R or 600WX2@8R and 900WX2@4R, HIGH CURRENT, INTEGRATED BRIDGING).

PRO REFERENCE TWO - (FULL CHASSIS, LED DISPLAY, 4 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, OUTPUT FOR 4 SPKRS, LINEAR POWER SUPPLY, CONVENTIONAL COOLING-HEATSINKS, 125W/CH@8R, 190W/CH@4R, 270W@2R, EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

PA2X200 - (FULL CHASSIS, 4 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, OUTPUT FOR 4 SPKRS, LINEAR POWER SUPPLY, CONVENTIONAL COOLING-HEATSINKS, 125W/CH@8R, 190W/CH@4R, 270W/CH@2R, EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

A2502 - (FULL CHASSIS, LED DISPLAY, 4 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, OUTPUT FOR 4 SPKRS, LINEAR POWER SUPPLY, CONVENTIONAL COOLING-HEATSINKS, 125W/CH@8R, 190W/CH@4R, 270W/CH@2R, EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

RA5502 - (FULL CHASSIS, LED DISPLAY, 4 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, OUTPUT FOR 4 SPKRS, LINEAR POWER SUPPLY, CONVENTIONAL COOLING-HEATSINKS, 125W/CH@8R, 190W/CH@4R, 270W/CH@2R, EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

RA5501 - (FULL CHASSIS, 4 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, LINEAR POWER SUPPLY, CONVENTIONAL COOLING-HEATSINKS, 125W/CH@8R, 190W/CH@4R, 270W/CH@2R).

A2801 - (FULL CHASSIS, 4 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, LINEAR POWER SUPPLY, CONVENTIONAL COOLING-HEATSINKS, 125W/CH@8R, 190W/CH@4R, 270W/CH@2R, EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

300X4 - (FULL CHASSIS 4 CH, 2 PM860S IN ONE PACKAGE, 6 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, DUAL PCR PS, DUAL FANS, A BEAST, 205W/CH@8R, 315W/CH@4R, 450W/CH@2R or 600WX2@8R and
900WX2@4R, HIGH CURRENT, INTEGRATED BRIDGING).

DJ900 - (FULL CHASSIS, FULL CHASSIS 4 CH, 2 PM860S IN ONE PACKAGE, 6 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, 1/4" AND BALANCED INPUTS, HIGH CURRENT, PCR POWER SUPPLY, FAN COOLED 205W/CH@8R, 315WCH@4R, 450W/CH@2R, 600W/MONO@8R, 900W/MONO@4R INTEGRATED BRIDGING).

DJ600 - (FULL CHASSIS, FULL CHASSIS 4 CH, 2 PM860S IN ONE PACKAGE, 4 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, 1/4" AND BALANCED INPUTS, LINEAR POWER SUPPLY, CONVENTIONAL COOLING-HEATSINKS, 125W/CH@8R, 190W/CH@4R, 270W@2R, INTEGRATED BRIDGING).

NEWER GENERATION WHEN MERGED WITH MTX:

A900PRO - (FULL CHASSIS, DUAL FANS, INTERNAL BRIDGING, 1/4" AND BALANCED INPUTS, NEUTRIK, FULL CHASSIS 4 CH, 2 PM860S IN ONE PACKAGE, 12 HITACHI TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH 375W/CH@8R, 600W/CH@4R, 900W/CH@2R, 1200W/MONO@8R, 1800W/MONO@4R, INTEGRATED BRIDGING).

A400PRO - (FULL CHASSIS, 6 HITACHI TO247 PLASTIC MOSFETS PER CH, 1/4" AND BALANCED INPUTS, HIGH CURRENT, PCR POWER SUPPLY, FAN COOLED 205W/CH@8R, 315WCH@4R, 450W/CH@2R, 600W/MONO@8R, INTEGRATED BRIDGING).

A200PRO - (FULL CHASSIS, 6 HITACHI TO247 PLASTIC MOSFETS PER CH, 1/4" AND BALANCED INPUTS, LINEAR POWER SUPPLY, CONVENTIONAL COOLING-HEATSINKS, 125W/CH@8R, 190W/CH@4R, 270W/CH@2R, EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

A100PRO - (FULL CHASSIS, 2 HITACHI TO247 PLASTIC MOSFETS PER CH, 1/4" INPUTS, LINEAR POWER SUPPLY, CONVENTIONAL COOLING-HEATSINKS, 60W/CH@8R, 90W/CH@4R, 135W/CH@2R, EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

A400 - (FULL CHASSIS, 6 MOSFETS PER CH, RCA INPUTS, HIGH CURRENT, PCR POWER SUPPLY, FAN COOLED, 6 HITACHI TO247 PLASTIC MOSFETS PER CH 205W/CH@8R, 315WCH@4R, 450W/CH@2R, EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

A200 - (FULL CHASSIS, 4 MOSFETS PER CH, RCA INPUTS, LINEAR POWER SUPPLY, CONVENTIONAL COOLING-HEATSINKS, 6 HITACHI TO247 PLASTIC MOSFETS PER CH 125W/CH@8R, 190W/CH@4R, 270W@2R, EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

A100 - (FULL CHASSIS, 2 HITACHI TO247 PLASTIC MOSFETS PER CH, RCA INPUTS, LINEAR POWER SUPPLY, CONVENTIONAL COOLING-HEATSINKS, 60W/CH@8R, 90W/CH@4R, 135W/CH@2R, EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

S800 - (SHOEBOX, 4 EXICON TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, RCA INPUTS, PCR POWER SUPPLY, FAN COOLED, 205W/CH@8R, 315W/CH@4R, 450W/CH@2R, 600W/MONO@8R EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

S860 - (SHOEBOX, 6 EXICON TO3-METAL MOSFETS/CH, RCA INPUTS, PCR POWER SUPPLY, FAN COOLED, HIGH CURRENT, 205W/CH@8R, 315W/CH@4R, 450W/CH@2R, 600W/MONO@8R, 900W/MONO@4R EXTERNALLY AND INTERNALLY BRIDGEABLE).

Any errors on the description please tell.

Now,

The story with these amplifiers is that during their production years according for those in the know in hi fi they weren't good for hi end and according to the DJs they weren't good for professional use, go figure.

I have tube amps, class D amps and I'm thinking of building one of Nelson Pass class A designs.

If one reads all over the web it seems that the general idea is that there's no perfect amplifier and neither are these.

But I have to say they sound extremely good.

After several A-B tests the newer MTX Soundcraftsmen seem to sound a little cleaner than the older models. It must be taken into account that the capacitors in the old amps are over 20 years old and that component technology has improved vastly. Also the use of the newer Profusion and Magnatec mosfets might make a difference in some of the newer models. This amplifiers are a huge bargain. I have bought several ones in horrible condition and since the sound comes from the "circuit" I just put them on a wood plank or buy a new chassis.

I have invited some naysayers to do a blind test with some of their amps but they refuse.

If anyone is interested in schematics email me and I'll gladly cooperate with you.

BTW,

I have over 30 Soundcraftsmen amps and I love them all.

rickedd46 greetings, some time ago that I have a power amplifier 8 soundcrafstmen and even use it, i read the post about soundcrafstmen amps and i saw the specifications and I wonder if I can get spare parts, also if you give me an idea of how to connect my speaker (I have two speaker 500w @ 8 ohm for use in bass) and my speaker for high working at 4 ohm, so I have more gain in the high than in the bass, that's mean, I have an imbalance, i use Peavy to 800 in the high and low use in the power amplifier 8 soundcrafstmen, the problem is that the switch for the bridge in power is broken and I have no way to see how to use it will appreciate it if you can get me the power soundcrafstmen 8 amp manual

[rickedd46]

cadex18,

Please send me your email by private message.

Rick.

[MJWPicMan]

First off, THANKS, RICKEDD46!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's next to impossible to find any info, particularly technical, about Soundcraftsmen components on line. And you have answered practically all my questions about my Pro Power 10. I got lucky and bought it from a guy who was selling it on Craigslist for $60. I didn't know anything about Soundcraftsmen, and neither I guess did he. The lick of the Irish. I had bought some Infinity 2.5s, and needed an amp to push them. My Parasound HCA 80 wasn't doing the job. But when I got the Pro Power 10 hooked up the lights in my apartment started dimming, and I ended up tripping the apartment's circuit breaker. That Pro Power 10 is a beast. And it's such a sweet sounding amp.
Now, as far as all that blather about Soundcraftsmen components "inferior/not quite audiophile" sound quality. I put my Pro Power 10 in direct competition, with the same components, up against Perreaux, McCormick ( is that spelled right?), Hafler, and a bunch of other amps my stereo nut friend Jay has. It sounded as good as any, better than most. It trashed the Hafler and the McCormick. Jay has a pair of MFA 200 mono blocks which Scott Frankland modified, and my Pro Power held it's own against the MFAs. And the MFAs are wonderful sounding amps. I'm sure there are better sounding amps. My friend Jay had a pair of big Denon mono blocks that were the size of small apartment refrigerators that he sold to a guy in Hong Kong for $20,000. I would have them in a flash. But I am SOOOO satisfied with my Pro Power 10. It makes my Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures sing. It's here to stay. And thanks again RickeDD46.
Martin.

[rickedd46]

Thanks MJWPicMan,

I have owned several of these amplifiers for a long time and was always puzzled about their return of quality sound and power per dollar vs. other brands of the same era which were higher end and more expensive. I worked for years in the trading equipment business and I would test all types of purchased equipment before buying them and played them for long hours in the store through all kinds of different speakers, cables, sources, etc. Sometimes we wondered why would anyone trade (at a loss) some of these fancy stuff when just a couple years before it got an excellent review in all the top mags. We used to combine all kinds of equipment from NAD, Adcom, Hafler, Crown, Carver, Klipsch, Jamo, B&W, NHT, KEF, Tannoy, Apt Holman, Nikko, Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, Sumo, Threshold, etc. Mostly traded in or sold to us by people that let the magazines and their high end dealers convince them the sound was coming out of the looks, weight, price, gold posts, bloated spec sheets, fancy names and reviews of someone with totally different ears than yours and looking to make money from the unaware. Or simply they just had too much money and couldn't justify having something cheap in their living room regardless of how good it sounds. Some of these brands we sold new. And even though some were excellent, some didn't perform as well as priced. Sadly.

Whenever we closed the store we would get together and experiment on all different of combinations for a few hours. The stuff from the very expensive brands was excellent but out of my reach used because I had a very hard time spending money on a different amp every six months or so just because it has good reviews. Note: Most expensive amplifiers can not be used for a party they're strictly for home use. The Soundcraftsmen can do both really well.

Note: It is a fact that amplifier technology was virtually unchanged for a lot of years until recently when class d designers found the way to eliminate the high frequency noise of that topology and has since been breaking into the hifi segment at a very fast pace. That said all class AB (the most used to date) amplifiers and class A have been created around the same basic design from years ago and are pretty much a variation of the original with the newest components available of its era. If you know how to read schematics you can see the point. You can design 2 amplifiers with basically the same schematic one cheap and one expensive based on the price of internal components. Also you add a nice chassis with a thick face and gold everything on the expensive unit and put the cheap unit on a plain box with cheap but decent connectors. And to make sure people don't call you out on it you change something on the schematic to make it look different but with the same result at the output. On a "blind" test no one will be able to tell the difference between the 2 even though the gold in the more expensive unit is blinding everyone in the room even with the eyes closed.

While a lot of amplifiers sound "musical" I must say the Soundcraftsmen sound like they're not there at all. IMO. The Pro Control 3 and 4 pre-amplifiers are very neutral sounding too. Remember this my opinion you might like a different sound or might confuse loud with good sounding. Btw these amplifiers do go loud on demand. So borrow one if you can and listen before you take the plunge. The physical look of the circuitry in these amplifiers (before MTX) is nothing to drool about so to most people will find they look ugly nude. I love them either way.

A few years ago some people with with a lot of business ideas realized that circuit and components looks sell more than the sound coming out of them. Take a look at ebay. Some of the flashy stuff there might not even work when you get it. And a lot of them are made with fake parts to begin with so you have to do your homework and not buy based on looks. Some of the ebay sellers which have come up with decent stuff have found themselves forced to drop the basic components in favor of the more flashy capacitors, resistors, etc. Otherwise people overlook them. It's like that not so attractive girl at the party that no one wants with to dance but ends up being a better and way cheaper date. Lol. With this I don't say the good looking stuff isn't good sounding but the good looks don't guarantee a better sound as a rule of law. It has been proven for a lot of years that certain people judge the sound of an amplifier before they even hear it. Must be the chassis or the tubes sticking out. The Soundcraftsmen might not have the most expensive boutique components of all amps, actually they got none at all (except the mosfet$$$$), but can be updated like any amp because the parts can be easily sourced. The most important thing is that the circuit engineer must have done something right. I can listen to my amps all day and night with ALL kinds of music without fatigue. They just sound good period and when the volume is turned up they respond with authority and no audible distortion. I have crossed the wires on one channel at high volume on one of the PCR series just to see if what the company stated was true and yes they do not burn on a speaker short.

Now don't try that unless you got over 30 Soundcraftsmen like I do.

Soundcraftsmen did take a few short cuts on the chassis, connectors and "some" of the components throughout. It was justified to keep the costs down and survive on a competitive market. Where they didn't cut was on the circuit design, mosfets and power supply. They weren't promoting themselves as "hi end". They were promoting themselves as "powerful, reliable and good sounding for a decent price" and that they delivered way more than promised.

Some of my amps are over 20 years old and they sound fantastic. I'm gonna start updating caps and resistor whenever I find time. I will post the work as I go.

Cheers.

[MJWPicMan]

Ditto to what Rickeedd46 said in the previous post about Soundcraftsmen not burning on a speaker short. One of the other pluses about Soundcraftsmen that's not mentioned is that they were built like a tank. They take a ton of abuse and come back for more. Someone brought over some Walsh Ohms for me to audition. They weren't wired right, although the owner swore they were. Anyway they were shorting, and all my Pro power 10 did was was clip and go into protection mode. Didn't hurt it at all. I also had bought a Soundcraftsmen RA5502 amp and when I got it home and hooked it up it started blowing fuses. One of the heat sinks would get hot and it would blow the protection fuse. I figured since it was one heat sink getting hot there must be a short in that side and sure enough one of the negative banana plugs on my 2Ce Signatures had worked itself partly out of the input, and was touching the positive plug. And all the Soundcraftsmen did was get warm and blow the fuse. Never hurt it or my beloved Vandersteens.
That really says something about the commitment and care the people who made Soundcraftsmen, particularly Paul Rolfes, their chief engineer, put into their components. They didn't have to design them that well, but they did. And I also concur with what Rickedd46 says about fatigue free listening. I've listened to my Pro Power 10 for hours, and it never hurts my ears. I always end thinking I can't believe I bought an amp that sounds this good for $60. I must be living right. So if you're looking for an amp, or preamp, and you want to maximize your stereo dollar, and don't care about looks, because pretty they're not, most of them anyway, buy a Soundcraftsmen if you can find one. It'll probably be way under priced and it will sound terrific. Believe me, when your friends hear it they will be jealous.

Happy trails, Martin.

[Tronman]

I'm new to the forum but have just purchased a Soundcraftsmen S860 AMP on Ebay and was wondering if any one may have a schematic for it or know where I can find one. I guess the gentlemen hadn't fully "tested" it before it put it up for bids so when he hooked it up for the check he blew the right channel speaker. He said he was going to have someone look at it but I wanted to give it a good once over before I hooked it up to anything valuable. If anyone has any info on what may have caused this it would be great. I'm an Engineering Technician and have worked in electronics for 20 years and was just wondering if any one has seen this before and maybe the probable cause.

Thanks guys,

Tim