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Thread: Finally powered up the 4350's today for the first time

  1. #1
    RIP 2011 neanderthal's Avatar
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    Finally powered up the 4350's today for the first time

    Today the 4350's came to life after two long years and major dollars. MAN !!!! these things will blow your head off. Today was the first time I have heard an actual stock un-modified pair of 4350's.These get very LOUD with very little cone movement.

    It was kinda funny and shouldn't admit it ,but when I put power to the rack I thought, MAN this thing is dead quiet no hum ,hiss , nothing!! ,then I remembered I still need to turn on the amps.There is a little hiss but no hum ect. I did wire a dedicated 20amp circuit just for the rack maybe that'll help some.

    The only issue so far is there is no left side low output on the bryston 10B L-R. I replaced it with a M552 and both sides now work as they should.I looked thru the Bryston manual and didn't see anything I over looked or screwed up as far as settings,wiring ect.

    Now Iam curious as to what Iam leaving on the table by using the M552 instead of the 10B L-R for now. The only thing Iam going to add is the Furman IT 20 ll or Equitech balanced power conditioner and a sequencer, probably a Furman PS-PRO series 2

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    Senior Member jbl_daddy's Avatar
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    Attach a picture...

  3. #3
    RIP 2011 neanderthal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbl_daddy View Post
    Attach a picture...
    I just broke everything down, believe it or not and covered everything up and put it out of the way.I got pics on here and for some reason it is very hard to take pics and have them come out decent down here

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    RIP 2011 neanderthal's Avatar
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    I was listening to the 4350's today and the more I listened to it the more pissed I was getting with the ever dreaded ground loop humming. Does anyone have a 100% dead quiet system?I finally had enough so I decided to play around with it and see if I could isolate it and try to eliminate it.

    Low and behold (atleast for now) I have this running almost dead quiet. I don't know if it is possible to have it 100% free of buzz,hum,ect but I'll give it a shot. Atleast it is almost tolerable now..(yeah sometimes Iam too picky for my own good).If I don't get it 100% I'll probably go the power conditioner and see if that'll get it 100%.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Krunchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
    I was listening to the 4350's today and the more I listened to it the more pissed I was getting with the ever dreaded ground loop humming. Does anyone have a 100% dead quiet system?I finally had enough so I decided to play around with it and see if I could isolate it and try to eliminate it.

    Low and behold (atleast for now) I have this running almost dead quiet. I don't know if it is possible to have it 100% free of buzz,hum,ect but I'll give it a shot. Atleast it is almost tolerable now..(yeah sometimes Iam too picky for my own good).If I don't get it 100% I'll probably go the power conditioner and see if that'll get it 100%.
    Hi Pete!
    I'll let you know how I make out, I also set up a 20 amp dedicated circuit just for the stereo equipment & grounded it with (6)-8' long cooper bars. I say I'll let you know because unfortunately since the project was completed lst july I have not re-assembled the stereo system (one project led to another)


    I'll probably be back up and runing by june or there abouts & hopefully without surprises. Let us know how you fare with the power conditioner. I was thinkig about a furman as well, but I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there. BTW, what is a sequencer & what does it do (merits/benefits?).
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    Just Play Music.

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    RIP 2011 neanderthal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krunchy View Post
    Hi Pete!
    I'll let you know how I make out, I also dedicated a circuit just for the stereo equipment & grounded it with (6)-8' long cooper bars. I say I'll let you know because unfortunately since the project was completed lst july I have not re-assembled the stereo system (one project led to another)
    Hopefully I'll be back up and runing by june or there abouts. Let us know how you fare with the power conditioner.

    Hey Krunchy your ground system looks good from what I see, and I hope it functions as good as it looks. I think what Iam going to do now after looking at your project is wait on the power conditioner til I see the outcome on what you have going on.
    The remaining noise I have is very minimal but not dead quiet. I just want my system free of unwanted noise as possible and since I have about a 5th of what I bought the house for invested in this anything less to me is not acceptable.I'd rather go your route than the 1,500.00-2,000.00 for the power conditioner route.
    I already have this running on a 20amp dedicated circuit so all I'd have to do is run one ground line outside and drive poles in the ground as you did.I might even save alot by going your route if it pans out than the power conditioner route.---Pete

  7. #7
    Senior Member Krunchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
    Hey Krunchy your ground system looks good from what I see, and I hope it functions as good as it looks. I think what Iam going to do now after looking at your project is wait on the power conditioner til I see the outcome on what you have going on.
    The remaining noise I have is very minimal but not dead quiet. I just want my system free of unwanted noise as possible and since I have about a 5th of what I bought the house for invested in this anything less to me is not acceptable.I'd rather go your route than the 1,500.00-2,000.00 for the power conditioner route.
    I already have this running on a 20amp dedicated circuit so all I'd have to do is run one ground line outside and drive poles in the ground as you did.I might even save alot by going your route if it pans out than the power conditioner route.---Pete
    I can totally understand that, it would piss me off too. The room where I have the dedicated circuit is a bit of a cluster F*%# at present moment. The 4345's I got from JohnW are biamp only so its a good amount of equipment to drag out of the cellar, but if I get a chance I'll try and hook it up & get back to you. Unfortunately I would have to break down the set up soon afterwards (which is the reason I havent bothered to set it up to begin with ) as I got a good amount of furniture that will be filling up that room for a little while longer as another home project continues.

    Where was the system hooked up prior to settling to its dedicated circuit, & did you have any hum then?

    I'll be happy to give you more of the particulars once I've had a chance to fire them up. Macaroonie would be your guy if you had any real technical questions.

    Price wise is was very reasonable, the hardest thing to find was the commoning bar that you see outside the house......Ah! wait, I cant believe I still have the link in a folder.....

    http://store.electrical-insulators-a...-bar-kits.html

    The grounding bars and clips you can find at any good electrical supply house, & lots of good heavy cooper wire

    We'll talk further

    Fred
    Just Play Music.

  8. #8
    RIP 2011 neanderthal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krunchy View Post
    as I got a good amount of furniture that will be filling up that room for a little while longer as another home project continues.
    after I got divorced and she left (thank god) I never went out and bought any furniture so more room for audio. I wouldn't use furniture upstairs if I did buy any, I'd just look at it passing thru..lol


    Quote Originally Posted by Krunchy View Post
    Where was the system hooked up prior to settling to its dedicated circuit, & did you have any hum then?
    Everything has been hooked up to the same 20amp circuit from day one as it is now. My problem was the CD/DVD player was the cause of the hum (atleast for now) since it was hooked into the TV with the cable service,if that makes any sense.I'll go to radio shack and get something like this http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062214 .Right now I unhooked it from the TV and only have it connected to the preamp and it almost got rid of all the noise. Maybe I'll play around with the grounds in the rack and see if I can make it any better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krunchy View Post
    I'll be happy to give you more of the particulars once I've had a chance to fire them up. Macaroonie would be your guy if you had any real technical questions.
    Yes without a doubt I'm interested in the outcome

    I also installed the 4 fan top on the middle atlantic rack with automatic controller that will kick the fans on whenever the inside temp reaces 80 degrees. I have the SX1980 on top of that and when I manually kicked the fans on , the SX1980 was warm and the fans cooled it right down.

    The fans make virtually no noise that I can hear when they are on. They are the 4 1/2"middle atlantic QFans and are very quiet.FWIW when I made the interconnects I used different colors purple,green,blue,orange to eliminate any confusion and screw ups as to what goes where.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Fred Sanford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krunchy View Post
    Hi Pete!
    BTW, what is a sequencer & what does it do (merits/benefits?).
    He probably is referring to the fact that many power conditioners have banks of outlets that are delayed or sequenced in the startup or shutdown process. Some also have current sensing outlets that can be set to tell if a component is in standby or full operation. For example, you turn on your power conditioner (or a triggering source), and *blink* your processor and sources turn on, then *blink* your power amps turn on. Turn the conditioner off, immediately your power amp shuts down, then the sources, then the processor. Something like that. Of course, some modern components don't like having power removed from them, they can lose their settings or mappings, or they are DVRs that want to be on all the time...you have to think that stuff out.

    Hope that helps...

    je

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    RE: Member when? subwoof's Avatar
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    not here

    power conditioners have NOTHING to do with ground loops / etc and will not help the situation.

    This subject has been discussed a number of times on this site and perhaps a good read through those threads is in order.

    Sometimes it's a simple solution ( like isolators on ANY OUTSIDE CATV LINE ) or a careful lifting of redundant AC ground connections on some chassis-to-strip locations.

    Sometimes it is necessary to *not* have a common steel rack rail for components and rewire others. every system is different and YES you CAN get it dead quiet and eliminate all but residual equipment noise.

    sub

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    RIP 2011 neanderthal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Sanford View Post
    He probably is referring to the fact that many power conditioners have banks of outlets that are delayed or sequenced in the startup or shutdown process. Some also have current sensing outlets that can be set to tell if a component is in standby or full operation. For example, you turn on your power conditioner (or a triggering source), and *blink* your processor and sources turn on, then *blink* your power amps turn on. Turn the conditioner off, immediately your power amp shuts down, then the sources, then the processor. Something like that. Of course, some modern components don't like having power removed from them, they can lose their settings or mappings, or they are DVRs that want to be on all the time...you have to think that stuff out.

    Hope that helps...

    je


    The Furman IT20ll balanced power conditioner doesn't sequence but that's a balanced power conditioner.There are alot of claimed power conditioners but I'm not sold that they condition the power at all (balanced power conditioners are a different animal).

    I did just install a Furman PS-PRO which is a 20amp sequencer. The PS PRO is suppose to be a power conditioner but personally I think it is only a glorified sequencer.Furman told me I'd have to plug the sequencer into the IT20ll balanced power conditioner to have balanced sequenced power.

    The PS-PRO has three double plug in's that are sequenced with adjustable sequence time up to 30 seconds per sequence and one outlet that is not sequenced always on. It sequences on 1 2 3 then off 3 2 1. I got it because I didn't want to screw up and shut down wrong(I would of eventually) and have to hear the loud thump people talk about. I just turn the key and it does everything.

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    Senior Seņor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
    The only issue so far is there is no left side low output on the bryston 10B L-R.
    Yeah, but we fixed that!

    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
    Does anyone have a 100% dead quiet system?
    Yup, a couple of them. Studio, Family Room, and of course the ones that go out on the road. But it takes work.

    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
    My problem was the CD/DVD player was the cause of the hum (atleast for now) since it was hooked into the TV with the cable service, if that makes any sense.
    Yes, it certainly does. Cable TV can be horribly dirty - poorly grounded. Grab your multi-meter and check for voltage between signal and shield - last time I did mine, it was about 9v. Not good - too many dirty, dirty neighbors...

    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
    I'll go to radio shack and get something like this http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062214 .
    Those work great until you decide to upgrade your components. I had a persistent GL for years in the Family Room system and was pretty thick with those GL isolators back then.

    Quote Originally Posted by neanderthal View Post
    Right now I unhooked it from the TV and only have it connected to the preamp and it almost got rid of all the noise.
    I suspect it is the preamp that is the problem - not entirely sure, but it's a possibility. I struggled for years, as I say, and one day decided to upgrade the preamp - everything else the same. Presto-chango, GL gone. What is your preamp?

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    Senior Member SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    I suspect it is the preamp that is the problem - not entirely sure, but it's a possibility.
    I would second that guess, before blaming grounding.

    My system is hum free and when I started assembling it, wanted to get ground problems out of the way...tester showed "open ground" ..house built in '59 ...they did not use same grounding as now ...not sure how they did it then, but no problems...were no 3 prong outlets in most of the house. have been considering pounding a stake and grounding to the outlet that the stereo uses..but then..why fix a problem that doesnt exist ? wHAT DID they do for grounding back then ?
    It's easier to try than to prove it can't be done

  14. #14
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    Neanderthal, I saw that you sent a message previously and tried to answer but it was some time after your message.

    I bought my original 4350's at a Home and Garden show here at the Salt Palace in (approx) 1973-4 for $1500.00. They were in the gray cabinets with black grill. I had buyers remorse and sold them to a friend who had also bought a pair when I did (giving him 4 speakers which he still has). I later received a call from a salesman at Broadway music for me to come look at a pair, which I did. I thought they looked real good (oak finish with blue grill) so I bought them (about 1974) for $2500.00. As I remember, the Oak veneer cost was about $300.00 additional. I still have them and still original (except for moving one 077 to the other side of the speaker to increase separation). I have had the woofers reconed by Performance audio. Sounds like I am being a little wordy.

    I use a Dod 835 crossover and a center channel with a 2202, 375 and 077 and a 3107 crossover.

    I use an Alesis Matica 900 to drive the 15" speakers and Alesis Matica 900 also to drive the 2202, 2440 and 077. An Alesis RA 500 drives the center speaker.

    Some might say that my listening area is not ideal and probably overkill but we enjoy it. Hope you have many long hours enjoying your new speakers.

  15. #15
    RIP 2011 neanderthal's Avatar
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    I didn't get to play around with the ground loop today except when I unplugged the preamp there was absolutely no change at all.Very unproductive day as far as trying to isolate what is causing the ground loop.



    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    Yeah, but we fixed that!

    Yup, a couple of them. Studio, Family Room, and of course the ones that go out on the road. But it takes work.

    Yes, it certainly does. Cable TV can be horribly dirty - poorly grounded. Grab your multi-meter and check for voltage between signal and shield - last time I did mine, it was about 9v. Not good - too many dirty, dirty neighbors...

    Those work great until you decide to upgrade your components. I had a persistent GL for years in the Family Room system and was pretty thick with those GL isolators back then.

    I suspect it is the preamp that is the problem - not entirely sure, but it's a possibility. I struggled for years, as I say, and one day decided to upgrade the preamp - everything else the same. Presto-chango, GL gone. What is your preamp?

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