Just how good are Paragons, really?

[Titanium Dome]

This is a typical and nearly fruitless endeavor. Take a classic, iconic unit and improve it without changing it or ruining its marketability. These old units are what they are. Improving them requires changing them. Changing them makes them something other than what they are.

I don't mind if an owner does whatever he/she wants with old speakers. Just realize that once someone starts mucking around, they're not the same speaker, and if you don't want the same speaker, then why get it in the first place?

So you can improve it but not change it? Seems like a contradiction to me.

[Mr. Widget]

So you can improve it but not change it? Seems like a contradiction to me.

Using DEQX is some what like having Chris Neuman come out and calibrate your SAM system. I think you would agree the difference the calibration makes is night and day. The power of DSPs shouldn't be over looked... obviously there is the knowledgeable professional using the tools, but with a little help, and careful perseverance almost anyone can at least get close.


Widget

[toddalin]

This is a typical and nearly fruitless endeavor. Take a classic, iconic unit and improve it without changing it or ruining its marketability. These old units are what they are. Improving them requires changing them. Changing them makes them something other than what they are.

I don't mind if an owner does whatever he/she wants with old speakers. Just realize that once someone starts mucking around, they're not the same speaker, and if you don't want the same speaker, then why get it in the first place?

So you can improve it but not change it? Seems like a contradiction to me.

Why buy a new car and add power enhancers, modded suspension, etc.?

Sometimes people want a little more out of something that was intended for the masses. Put a new cam in a Corvette for more power and it is still a Corvette.

There is a place in the world for modifications that can enhance something while rendering it basically the same.

[badman]

Why buy a new car and add power enhancers, modded suspension, etc.?

Sometimes people want a little more out of something that was intended for the masses. Put a new cam in a Corvette for more power and it is still a Corvette.

There is a place in the world for modifications that can enhance something while rendering it basically the same.

I agree. I'm all for modification, the pedestal of history is a rubbleheap. I wouldn't use a paragon for my own listening (from what I'm guessing about its sound, and what I consider to be major design flaws), but DEQX or other digital crossover work could go a long way to solving some of the gross problems, and I can certainly see the visual appeal, and wanting to keep it as the speaker (s) for that reason but still get decent sound is a perfectly legitimate goal.

[AmericanPie]

....Sometimes people want a little more out of something that was intended for the masses. Put a new cam in a Corvette for more power and it is still a Corvette.

There is a place in the world for modifications that can enhance something while rendering it basically the same.

I think it's appropriate you put this in the perspective of cars since after all, whether we're talking vintage stereo equipment or automobiles, it's all "stuff".

A comparable case in automobilia would be now-classic BMWs and Ferraris from the early 1980s. They originally came equipped with metric-sized tires which are now extremely outdated, hard-to-find, and very expensive. Most owners of these cars (myself included) are switching over to modern tire technology in the standard 16" and 17" sizes for better performance. Another example: many guys with 1950s and 1960s Corvettes have long ago dumped their ancient bias-ply tires for modern and far safer radial tires; doing so has probably saved more than a few from serious accidents. Plus, making a few inconspicuous changes under the hood of any old car can drastically ramp up the "fun factor" while maintaining the classic look most of us can appreciate.

However, at some point we DO have to accept old things for what they are; a modern V6 Honda Accord will give an old BMW M6 a good run for its money and will blow a Ferrari 308 into the weeds at anything under 100 mph. A Civic will easily outhandle an old 427 Vette. Either way, whether we're discussing speakers or cars, it's futile to try and keep up with time by continually throwing money into our things. I guess the best we can do is improve them as best we can (to the point of reason) and then stand back and let them age gracefully.

[jtsamarinda]

I think Johnny's suggestion to try DEQX or something like it is a very good one. Essentially no modification would be necessary (other than disconnecting the jumpers from the four networks.) and it would yield the greatest improvement possible while maintaining the original look.

Using DEQX isn't simple, but with care, you could make significant improvements to the sound and even make adjustments to taste if you wanted.

DEQX would allow correcting the time and phase alignment. group delay, and frequency response. You could also use a very steep phase linear crossover slope between the 375 and woofer which would help the 375 on that small horn.


Widget

Speaking of phase alignment does anyone knows what the correct phase was done on the original JBL Paragon.

075 where they out of phase?.
375 where they in phase or out of phase?
And I guess the Woofer LE15A was in phase.


Any one who has worked on the Paragon.

Joe Lazaro

[Tom Brennan]

So you can improve it but not change it? Seems like a contradiction to me.

Well Ti I'd value a Paragon as much as a piece of furniture as a speaker. So if I could improve the sound while leaving the look unchanged it would be a good thing. And I wouldn't care about collectibility value; if I bought a Paragon I'd probably use it until I was dead anyway.

[Titanium Dome]

No doubt it can be improved; in fact, it would have to be improved to be listenable to me. The DEQX approach is useful if you have parts that are adequate to respond to the calibration.

Like I wrote, do anything you want to your own gear. I don't waste my time. Either I buy it and listen to it for what it is, or I buy the best I can get of the latest and greatest.

[Maron Horonzakz]

So who now is going to make the first modification to the Everest II ????

[Oldmics]

Speaking of phase alignment does anyone knows what the correct phase was done on the original JBL Paragon.

075 where they out of phase?.
375 where they in phase or out of phase?
And I guess the Woofer LE15A was in phase.


Any one who has worked on the Paragon.

Joe Lazaro

The 3 drivers are of the same polarity when energised thru the crossovers.

All bets are off for any real phase measurements.

Oldmics

[Old curmudgeon]

I love them, but if I had one, it would remain in the museum and not in the listening room.


Widget

My listening room has often been mistaken for a museum.

[jtsamarinda]

The 3 drivers are of the same polarity when energised thru the crossovers.

All bets are off for any real phase measurements.

Oldmics

Thanks Oldmics,

I've noticed that there is a photo of the JBL Paragon and the Hartsfield are they your setup?
When 3 driver of the same polarity would that be all in Phase thru the crossover?.

Thank You.

Joe

[rpstephen]

I can offer my views of the paragon as an owner of both the paragon and 4430s. When I first bought a new paragon in the mid 70s, I was not overly impressed with its performance until a friend brought over his stereo equipment to try it out. What a huge improvement! I find the sound of the paragon is highly equipment dependent. My midlevel electronics just didn't do it justice. On the other hand my 4430s sound decent with a sony AV reciever which sounds very blah on the paragon.

In terms of comparison, the 4430s are more neutral, have more extended bass, and better transient response. I prefer the paragon for operas, choral works, and large scale orchestral works. Well recorded jazz also sounds great. The paragon throws an impressive wide scale soundstage for these works and imparts a "weight" to the music with no sense of strain. Louie armstrong's horn to me sounds much better on the paragon than the 4430s. Most pop/rock music sounds better on the 4430s unless recorded with a "natural" stereo perspective (not multilayered).

The bass on the paragon can be improved using the 2234 drivers (Deeper more solid no wooliness). Unfortunately the sound stage lost depth with this modification. Redesign of the crossovers is needed due to impedence
differences between the LE-15a & 2234. The crossovers could also stand freshening with by-pass capcitors etc. If my "barge" should ever come in, I would commission a new crossover design. Of course, everything would be reversible back to the original state.

My amp & preamp are Atma-Sphere OTL tube units and are a match made in heaven for the paragon. Unfortunately, the paragon is in storage, as I have not enough room in my condo on Pensacola beach. I suppose, I need to sell the paragon.

[4313B]

JBL
Northridge, CA
2006

[JBLRaiser]

I've noticed several have been popping up on Ebay lately, often looking for huge bucks. Their industrial design has always intrigued me and I assume they used JBL's (then) state of the art drivers but I've never been fortunate enough to actually hear one. Just wondering how these sound compared to, say, L300s or L250ti's, L7s, etc.

Adding this and adding that to 'improve' the performance of a Paragon seems blasphemous. As we all know, speakers have their own signature sound. And that's what makes their performance unique. JBL's sound different from one another as well as from other manufacturers. Along with that goes the design of the enclosure- and yes, we like them for their looks, too.
Enter Paragon, a unique design from a bygone era and showcasing the best JBL had to offer. 250ti's it's not. But, it's also not an L100, built by the millions and begging for a sock stuffed in the port to tame the BB.
But, neither is the Bugatti Type 57S Atalante a Bugatti EB110, although it will bring a much higher price. Both are classics in their own rite, yet the latter specs out better and the former would never be 'upgraded' for the sake of performance.
The OP wanted comparison's and without hearing them, I can unequivocally say they are all different and the newer the TOTL design, the more detail, frequency response, imaging, accuracy and power handling you will have(but, not necessarily in one package). So, yes they are not as advanced in the 'sound variables' as later offerings, but they are still a pleasing and enjoyable sound producer or so I've heard. For those owning one, find some vintage tube amps, get it in spec and enjoy the music.