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Thread: Anything new on 2435HPL horn compatability/implementation?

  1. #1
    jlharden
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    Anything new on 2435HPL horn compatability/implementation?

    Having read the exhaustive amount of info in the archives, I decided I'd like to one day play with these "rarities". I've just recently made that ownership plunge and am interested in any new developments or field experience from users who may not have updated information recently. It looks like the H9800 would be the natural selection to complement the drivers, but unavailable. I still haven't seen a source for a good copy. The 2352 appears good and I may try to source a pair. I've also seen reference to some DDS 1.5" exit drivers. It seems that a 2" horn with a adaptor may also broaden the choices. So......a few viable options, but not much consensus. For reference, I'm looking to match a 2226H woofer in a corner cabinet design. A 2-way is the target, but I do have a mint pair of 077's on stand-by if necessary. System will be bi-amped with active crossovers. I will continue to digest the large amount of information available and would love to hear anything extra from those who've went down this path. Cabinets are nearly complete and I will post some pics and my own experience as it becomes relevant. Thanks!

    Jerrod

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    Hi Jerrod,

    - There are several options .
    - One approach that I would recommend for those who can't design an EQ circuit is to use a horn type that EQs ( lifts ) the HF automatically .
    - This ( HF lift ) is accomplished by using a horn with a higher "Q" factor ( ie; narrower dispersion characteristics ) .

    Anyways;
    - The best looking curve ( unequalized ) that I've seen for the 2435hpl is when it was mounted to Widgets' TH-4003 horn clone ( TAD ).
    - I believe, this horn has a 80 by 30 degree dispersion pattern , .
    - As Widget does, one would want to use a tweeter above 9K .
    - This large radial offers the lowest crossover point that I've seen .

    - The next best ( IMO ) is the 2435 mounted to the PT-F64 . It too would need a UHF device above 9K .
    - I use these JBL horns or waveguides with 2431s ( in my SR work ) and they do sound very nice .
    - Realistically, this horn can almost run unequalized from 1.2K to 9K if one wants to keep things simple .
    - In my case, the high frequencies above 10K are restored by parametric EQ ( obviously boosted ) .
    - This option is your most affordable & quite attainable by purchasing direct from JBL Pro .
    - Obviously, an 800 hz crossover point just isn't attainable with this waveguide ( unless the lower octave [from 800 to 1600 hz ] is EQed upwards )
    - ( btw, ignore Widgets' naming errors found within this graph )

    - Here's what one of my 2431Hs looks like on a H5038 ( the Paragon Horn ) with a 1.4" to 2" adapter .
    - The H5038 is a 60 by 30 degree horn having an elliptical mouth .
    - Again, using the H5038, would necessitate the use of a tweeter / and by the looks of it , a mild notch filter should be located on 6K .
    - One can see ( from the graph ), that a 800hz crossover point is within reach ( without resorting to EQ tricks ) .
    - I might eventually try a set of these at home ( with one of my tweeter choices ) .
    - Noteworthy here, I've used a fairly demanding 3 db vertical scale / so ; I consider this response quite smooth ( even with one of my 2431 drivers of dubious quality ) .

    <> cheers
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  3. #3
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Jerrod


    I have done 2 working systems with these drivers, one a biamp/passive 3 way using a 121A, 2108 and a 2435 the other my full active set-up. To use them as a 2 way you are going to need to do some compensation on them. You can get them so the top end comporable to a 2344 as far as top extension is concerned and they sound better too when you are done.

    You can always drop the slots on top of them and see what's what. I would try them out both ways to see what you like.

    As far as a horn?? That has always been the issue. That has not really changed you are limited with any of the newer offerings. I like the PT's I am using. They are nice and shallow so they make things easier especially with passive networks.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    To use them as a 2 way you are going to need to do some compensation on them. You can get them so the top end comporable to a 2344 as far as top extension is concerned and they sound better too when you are done.
    As a second data point... I'll disagree with the "they sound better" part. Different yes, but I wouldn't call it better. The mids are better in my opinion, and it is always desirable to loose an element when possible, but I don't think the highs are better. (Yes that is merely an opinion. )


    Widget

  5. #5
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    It's not terribly expensive to experiment with these; the PT waveguides are just over $100 each.

    I'm still using PT-F1010HF, Rob's using PT-H1010HF, Earl and Subwoof're using PT-F64HF, and 4313B's using PT-F95HF. JBL also uses PT-H64HF and PT-H95HF with that driver in product.

    Guido liked the P-Audio 2344A knockoff.

  6. #6
    jlharden
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    Thank you Earl, Rob, Widget and Zilch for your experience. I suspected horn compatability was still a stumbling block as I was unable to find much different news in current threads than 2004 and prior. I've been building/experimenting for years and will continue on(what else would I do, wife would worry if I quit!). There has been some great groundwork layed, so the trip to good sound shouldn't be a long one! I will do more studying with the suggested options and will likely have more questions and perhaps even some good findings to report along the way. More later.....

    Jerrod

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    Hi all, I'm a proud owner of some mint 2345hpl's so a sexy 2 way beckons for me too..
    So how does a Brit go about getting hold of these PT waveguides?
    The JBL europe/uk site is all over the shop and I can't find a thing let alone order anything.
    Ideally H9800 clones would be lovely replacements for the 2441/2397 but my potential source has gone deep cover so the PT 1010 plus 2x2235's may be plan B...
    Cooky

  8. #8
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Cocky

    Are you going to be using an active crossover or designing a passive?? If you are going down the updated 4435 route watch the woofer efficiency and the top octave. You are going to need compensation to run them in a 2 way and running the PT1010's down to say 1K passive may be a bit of a balancing act to get the 1K crossover point and acceptable response up top.

    I have no clue how to get them in Europe but a Pro dealer/reconner would be my first starting point.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  9. #9
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    Hi,
    Quote Originally Posted by cooky
    Ideally H9800 clones would be lovely replacements for the 2441/2397,,,snip, snip
    Cooky
    - I'm at a loss why people think the H9800 is the way to go ( must be the glare of bright sunshine or something ) .
    - It's design ( as well as the H4338 ) imposes a bunch of lower response ripples that only the most experienced crossover designer is capable of dealing with ( if you aren't talented in this area or at least have some money to throw at the problem [ie; hire a network designer ] then I'd seriously recommend staying away from these horns ).

    - Read 4313Bs ( great ) information thread ( very carefully ) about the 476Be to see what I'm getting at .


    - See what I mean ? Even the ( wonderfully ) flat response of the 476Be is messed about by the H9800 below 2K ( it wreaks havoc on the 435Be ) .
    - Now compare both responses ( of the 435Be & the 476Be ) when driving a JBL Pro waveguide ( seen below ).



    - It really doesn't get any better ( for a raw curve ) than that 476Be on the waveguide ( it's a PT-F95HF, I believe ) .

    ,,,,but my potential source has gone deep cover so the PT 1010 plus 2x2235's may be plan B...
    - As well they should, I'm confident that the free info that they obtained was never meant to fuel "for-profit horn making " .

    >< cheers

    ps; IMO, this Giskard network (even though it's for the 476Be on the afore-mentioned waveguide ) is a good place to start ( for the 2435H ) .
    - Among other things, it appears to have a mild bit of LF-EQ, acting below 1K to help flatten out the lower response curve .



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Hello Cocky

    Are you going to be using an active crossover or designing a passive??
    Hi Rob, I'll be using an XTA 226 active /system controller. The number of threads and breadth/depth of contributions is awesome on here but info overload means I don't know if I'm coming or going!
    The 'plan' is to cross over at 800hz and run the 2435's up to say 13.5-14khz with a bit of eq-I can't hear much above that but with maybe a slot to handle the very last hf if absolutely necessary.
    I had assumed the PT 1010 was the one good down to 800hz. I also have the option of running one of the 2235's just as a helper up to 250hz.
    Cooky

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    Thanks Earl, input duly noted and taken on board.
    Any advice is very welcome.
    Cheers
    Cooky

  12. #12
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I had assumed the PT 1010 was the one good down to 800hz. I also have the option of running one of the 2235's just as a helper up to 250hz.
    Cooky
    Not really and that is their biggest limitation at least the PTH1010. It may work but you are pushing things. You can see how they load up the driver in the 1-3K range and roll-off below that. I have tried out a couple of passive solutions in LEAP and you really take a hit with the attenuation to try to get better low end say below 1k out of them. I have not had a chance to build them yet but they were set-up for a 2 way with about 91db sensitivity.

    Running 2431 on a SR horn with 077's up top was a poor-mans Array I had on the drawing board. You can see the horn loads the driver a bit better. The hit on sensitivity with this wasn't all that bad, less than trying to work it from both ends. Once you make the decision to go with a tweeter it gets a lot easier. The second one works out to around 95db using the attenuation on the 2405 as the baseline.

    Rob
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    Thanks Rob, well I don't want to push things, they're far too expensive.
    Seems I need either different woofers with better mid extension or 1.5" horn /wg good to 800hz....I'll have a play running my current set up at 900hz-1khz to see how the 2235's perform though I'm aware that too is a push...

  14. #14
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    Rob,

    -What's with that 2.8K notch ( on your 2431 ) ? 6db is quite a lot !
    - Also, which SR horn is that on ?

    >< cheers

  15. #15
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    800 Hz means 2352, probably.

    That's a stretch for the driver, as well, but it'll get there....

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