New Italian speaker company

[Maron Horonzakz]

So who,s buying up these 2256G.s and 2435.s & 2250.s ? And why havent these components filtered down as scrap from the stages of our entertainment buisiness?

[johnaec]

Originally posted by Maron Horonzakz
So who,s buying up these 2256G.s and 2435.s & 2250.s ? And why havent these components filtered down as scrap from the stages of our entertainment buisiness?

'My question exactly... I know lots of sound companies are using the Vertec series, (that use these components), and the components are available as replacement parts, but I've seen no technical info on the components themselves besides the bare minimums. I'd like to think JBL values low distortion, flat response, etc. in these "pro" components as much as they do/did in the 43XX, 44XX, etc. series, (that use many of the same components they used to put in their "pro sound" stuff), so I don't know why they're not offered separately, unless JBL thinks there's no market, they're not "connoisseur" quality, or they're too expensive...

John

[Oldmics]

Howdy Gang
The parts are availiable as johnaec pointed out.They are availiable as an advanced spares kit for pro touring applications.

I would guess that the limited availiability of these pro devices is intended for supporting the owners of the Vertec boxs first.

I have been waiting quite some time now for an order that I placed for a single low frequency driver.When the order was placed I was told that this was only the second order ever placed for this driver as an individual part.While we all would like to have the latest and greatest parts for our projects,this tiny two pieces ordered would never justify the R+D that went into these drivers design.Only thru Vertec sales could this cost have been justified.

I agree that the information about these new fangled devices is difficult to obtain.(Difficult but not impossible).Again availiable to those who own Vertec boxs. JBL is taking care of those who have plopped down there money for this technology.Those people have spent MAJOR money and there support of this product comes first and then the scraps are divvied out.

And yes,these drivers are stupid expensive.Or as a friend of mine at JBL says "We are really proud of these ! "

Please don"t think that I agree with this policy but I do understand the business nature of this limited parts availibility.

Oldmics

[scott fitlin]

Originally posted by johnaec
'My question exactly... I know lots of sound companies are using the Vertec series, (that use these components), and the components are available as replacement parts, but I've seen no technical info on the components themselves besides the bare minimums. I'd like to think JBL values low distortion, flat response, etc. in these "pro" components as much as they do/did in the 43XX, 44XX, etc. series, (that use many of the same components they used to put in their "pro sound" stuff), so I don't know why they're not offered separately, unless JBL thinks there's no market, they're not "connoisseur" quality, or they're too expensive...

John

See I waited to let someone else mention Vertec! But now that you have, Ill add on to it.

I have heard it used in a MAJOR Manhattan Nightclub, and at concert venues. The Vertec as a club install isnt right nor will it ever be! But I can understand that, because to me the Vertec is for arena sound.

But even at the concerts I think its funny sounding! I thought the subs lack depth, and the line arrays arent as clear as I would think such expensive premium technology should be! Very high powered, DSP controlled, but lacks finesse in all areas. Jus my opinion.

I can understand JBL holding back with availability of raw drivers, and keeping them for Vertec owners, but I still dont like Vertec!

I heard the HLA rig several times, and although its no longer available, I wasnt keen on it either.

I love the 70,s and 80,s sound of JBL, but I guess Im not much for the New JBL!

[scott fitlin]

I just wish to say that I realize that companies must push into new areas, and develop new technologies, but I wish JBL would remember their past, and produce a limited line of Signature JBL sound components!

I wonder what would happen if they did a limited run of say 1000 JBL 150-4C,s! Think they would sell out?

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by scott fitlin


I wonder what would happen if they did a limited run of say 1000 JBL 150-4C,s! Think they would sell out?

The 150-4C cost $138.00 each in 1964. That would put it in the $1,380.00 neighborhood 40 years of inflation later. I bet it would retail for about that too if they built an exact replica.

How many would you order Scott?


Widget

[Oldmics]

Hey Guys

Check out this inflation calculator

http://www.aier.org/cgi-aier/colcalculator.cgi

[Guido]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
The 150-4C cost $138.00 each in 1964. That would put it in the $1,380.00 neighborhood 40 years of inflation later. I bet it would retail for about that too if they built an exact replica.

They could sell it for 400 USD and earn hell lot of money even though.

Anyone of you know where they REALLY produce?

[locanti]

Hey OLDMICS!

Funny calculator.
I 'm ready to buy a pair of HARTFIELD for $6,138.84/piece immediatly($993 in 1962)

[scott fitlin]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
The 150-4C cost $138.00 each in 1964. That would put it in the $1,380.00 neighborhood 40 years of inflation later. I bet it would retail for about that too if they built an exact replica.

How many would you order Scott?


Widget

IF, and I do mean IF, they had a driver that I flipped over I would order the amount I need to do my system!

I have tried EVERYTHING and not for the longest found ANYTHING to replace some of my older drivers ( Altec ) until I came across Eighteensound, and purchased two 15MB700,s! I like them and so does everyone else, and yesterday I placed my order for another ten, plus the two they had in stock! So, I have two spares, as well as operating stock!

I have twelve TAD1603, and I thought about building bass reflex boxes that would be more suited for these woofers! I have 4 TAD 1601A,s and these are the best sounding to my ears of this type of driver, but also, requires a bass reflex cabinet!

However, nothing gives that basshorn sound if youve got the right driver! So now I got the right driver, and I will stay with my basshorns!

I called JBL a few times this winter, looking for E-130,s as that will work in a basshorn, but they dont have any left, and they arent making them anymore! I have serched through every American manufacturers catalogs looking for a suitable basshorn driver only to keep coming up empty! IF JBL made updated 2220,s or some suitable driver for my application they would have recieved an order for 12-14 of them. I look at things as you only have to buy it once if its right the first time!

Ill tell you what I DID NOT wish to do! Scour the used market for items that I might have to fix, and not be sure if its exactly what things were 20yrs ago!

SO, if JBL made a woofer suitable for basshorns such as 150-4C,s or 2220A,s but updated for todays power, I would have auditioned them, and just like I did with 18sound, if they were right, I would have bought!

Another thing to point out, is that I am in the middle of changing ALL my power amps, so basically, at the end of the month I, effectively, have an almost entirely new system. With fantastic headroom, and healthy power, to handle the demands of todays music!

I gotta say this too, the power handling and clean sound of the 18sound MB drivers allows me to do something I havent been able to do previously. Increase my power and headroom, but still maintain the certain type of tonality I love.

And just for the record, the reason I cant do a four way full range, with dedicated low frequency cabinets, and horn loaded twelve or ten in midranges, and high mid horn ontop is I just dont have the ceiling height. I must work within the limitations of my room, however, WHAT THIS room can do, with the right stuff is UnF#$*ingbelievable!

But, If I was willing to spend for 12 TAD 1601A,s you really think I would flinch at JBL if they had something I really wanted?

[scott fitlin]

Originally posted by Guido
They could sell it for 400 USD and earn hell lot of money even though.

Anyone of you know where they REALLY produce?

I have been told that JBL has some of thier stamped frame drivers made in China! Im not sure if this is true, but, doesnt Crown, now owned by Harman, have a series of Crown amps that are assembled in China?

[Mr. Widget]

Hey Scott,

I understand where you are coming from, I was only pointing out that the demand for that specific driver wouldn't cover the tooling as they no longer use that type of construction on any of their current drivers. Personally I would get blown drivers and recone them or do as you've done and find an appropriate driver made by someone else.

Now on the issue of horn loaded bottom ends (Please, no pun intended) I believe I read on one of our threads but couldn't find it in a quick search about Sony using several JBL Sub1500s in horn loaded cabs for a theater or pavilion in London.

I realize you don't need much XMAX for a typical bass horn, but the super stiff cone would certainly work well with a horn design.

Widget

[scott fitlin]

I hear that, and let me clarify something, I use six double 15in straight front loaded horns for midbass, and I use 18,s for sub bass! So the sub 1500 wont do it for me, as I use bigger woofers for sub!

Mr. Widget I know you know alot, and you build awesome, if not the best JBL clones I have ever seen! But ya know what? That you build JBL clones of vintage horns and speaker cabs says it all! You wanted something they dont have, so you had to find an alternative means of getting what you wanted! Lets talk about the dance club market for a minute! In the 70,s and 80,s JBL was in EVERY nightclub all over the world! Tweeters, midbass, sub bass, midrange, etc! In the 90,s when JBL began to change dramatically, many people I know no longer liked the newer drivers, and stopped using JBL in installs! Now along comes EAW, with a dedicated line intended for dance clubs ( Avalon ) and literally blew JBL out of that market! EAW makes basshorns, push pull bass, horn loaded mid, and makes these inverted pyramid beyma loaded tweeter arrays! And ya know what else? people actually say this stuff sounds better than present day JBL! But ya know what else? JBL did this to themselves! They didnt care about nighclubs as a market till they no longer had them anymore. Just like the Home Hi-Fi market. They could have kept up as the leader. But they didnt, and other companies took over and filled a void in these markets! Sure, now, after the fact, JBL has finally introduced a dedicated line for dance clubs, but unfortunately its too late! EAW has a strong foothold in that market.

I remember all too well, back in 90-94 being told how many things were obsolete, and didnt work well or sound good, and I personally worked as a DJ on many systems with technology that on paper was better, but in reality didnt sound as good! I mean, I would have kept my dollars in our economy, but I need what I need.

Its alot like the Auto industry, remember when the cars from Detroit werent so well made anymore? Everybody has at least one Japanese or European car these days! Why?

I see many people into vintage style audio, between this forum, Todd White,s forum, Audiokarma, and I also see on the prosound forums the use of items non-JBL. There is, in my opinion, a market for traditional items, as well as people who will buy them!

As for the pro,s many of them are into compression drivers from the likes of manufacturers like Beyma! Years ago the best sounding comp drivers were JBL, at least to my ears! And vintage JBL,s still, to this day, surpass, sonically, most everything out there!

I dunno.

[Maron Horonzakz]

So when a company like JBL does,nt listen to its customers They make the same mistake that Altec did?

[Ken Pachkowsky]

This was an interesting read. Funny how we die hards just can't accept the logic of JBL execs who have taken the road they have.

Ever wondered what direction they would have gone if James Lansing was still around?

One thing you can always count on. Things rarely stay the same. I doubt JBL will ever be the market leader it once was.

I too often wonder why JBL does not do a run of some of the original drivers mentioned in this thread. A couple of thousand 150-C's could put one of us into retirement. With 375's selling for 2 grand a pair, whip up a few of those as well.

Have a good one.