Care to invest in an Array 1400 system?

[villastrangiato]

I know I am not alone when I say I feel screwed having layed down a good chunk of change for speakers I thought I'd own for a long time - for me one of the primary reasons for buying JBLs was that they'd last and be readily fixable.

So before anyone else reading this decides on buying a 5 thousand dollar (or more ) pair of speakers from Harman, you might want to take a look at how well you and your products will be supported into the future.

Below is a link to JBL's support site - specifically listing parts for the Array 1400. Now I haven't looked to see what they cost but my guess is well over 5 grand a pair - what I paid for 250ti Limiteds about 15 years ago. Notice you have to be put on a wish list if for some reason your amp burns up a voice coil and you need a new woofer - NICE. Or perhaps a fine Harman rep will suggest you buy one of their PSW1400 subs currently on sale for 1200 to cannibalize the part out of it.

Just wondering out loud about you folks up in Northridge - what's next? Will be seeing the current Harman CEO up on capital hill some time soon - asking for a bailout so it can afford to continue honoring legal committments to stock parts for products it is currently selling?

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_br...L&MarketId=HOM


http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_br...00BLK-Z&status=

[timc]

You confuse me.

Are you saying your dealer cant get replacement parts for your Array1400?


That sounds weird to me. The dealer here in Norway have no problem supplying the units.


-Tim

[BMWCCA]

Maybe they're not making the parts available to just anyone. If you really need them, have you tried calling with your speakers' serial number to order parts? Perhaps they're saving them for those who actually own the product rather than selling the parts to just anyone. :dont-know

See, in Norway you might actually have an independent dealer who stocks the products, and I'm not talking parts, but current systems to see, touch, and hear.

[Titanium Dome]

Honestly, is this what we've come to? Pick up the darn phone, call an authorized dealer or even email [email protected] (listed on that same page) and ask about any part needed.

If you bought on the gray market, maybe you'll have a harder time getting the parts, but the parts are there. If you bought through legitimate JBL channels, then it's easier.

How often has anyone even needed parts for Array 1400s and couldn't get them? Or is this just Chicken Little screaming "The sky is falling!"?

[JeffW]

I think what he means is if you buy an Array 1400 today, will you be able to get parts for it down the road. Using the analogy of the 250ti, which was one of the better systems a few years ago but is not fully* supported today.

*You might be able to get a LE14H-3 down the road if they make another batch, but what if you want a left grill or a crossover or a 044ti? Not sure they could hook you up.

[Mr. Widget]

Just wondering out loud about you folks up in Northridge -

Posts like this make me want to turn off the computer. What a stupid speculation... I am sure that parts will be available for well beyond the warranty period, beyond that it's anyone's guess, but JBL's history of servicing their older systems is better than anyone else. Sure it would be nice to be able to repair every speaker they ever made, but they are running a business and some sacrifices must be made if a company is going to remain in business.

Try to get repair parts for your 15 year old Dunlavys or even Sonus Fabers or...


Widget

[Robh3606]

Thanks Widget

Couldn't have said it better myself. Make it 5 years old as that would be even more accurate.

Rob

[timc]

Maybe they're not making the parts available to just anyone. If you really need them, have you tried calling with your speakers' serial number to order parts? Perhaps they're saving them for those who actually own the product rather than selling the parts to just anyone. :dont-know

See, in Norway you might actually have an independent dealer who stocks the products, and I'm not talking parts, but current systems to see, touch, and hear.

No they don't stock up on parts. They order them when needed.


-Tim

[villastrangiato]

To answer some questions:

1) Yes, i emailed Harman and the domain kicked back my email
2) I then sat on the phone listening to a voice recording tell me that I could leave a message and someone might get back to me in a day or two (listened to the message loop for about 20 minutes - no one picked up)
3) Is it a crime to want to order a pair of LE14H3 's to have as spares in case another voice coil burns out of one of my LE14H's - because the recone kits are no longer available and I don't feel like chasing down a particular individual who lives two thousand miles away to "CUSTOM BUILD" a new one for me for what I'm sure will be a very nominal fee?


Most manufacturers of products would be happy to sell parts for their stuff to any willing buyer - no matter what the buyer intended for them (ie. throwing them off a cliff, burying them in the back yard, making nice garden ornaments out of them.....) As long as they can sell the part - who cares. Small companies like GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, General Electric, Hewlett Packard, Dell - they don't ration parts to customers that are more deserving than others. There are laws in most states that provide penalties for companies who sell major ticket items without offering spare parts and adequate support services. I introduced this thread because the LE14H-3 is currently listed on Harman's parts site as a wish list item. The Array 1400 which is currently being offered for sale in addition to the PSW 1400 - both use this part. I don't trust a company that sells something it can't provide parts for. And I suspect most rational, reasonably intelligent folks feel the same way. Imagine buying a new Chevy Cobalt SS and finding out that the turbocharger you need replaced under warranty is on a "wish list".

[Mr. Widget]

Look, if you bought a pair of Array Series speakers talk to your dealer and I am sure he'll be happy to help you out. If you just want a pair of LE14H-3s then put your name on the waiting list like everyone else.

As for your car analogy... my dad has been waiting 4 months for a replacement tail light for his Cadillac. Just in time inventory welcome to the modern world.


Widget

[speakerdave]

Read his wording carefully. He does not come right out and say he bought a pair of Arrays, although the wording of his first sentence would be more appropriate for a factual statement than it is for the conditional. It does seem that he wants to give the impression he's a disgruntled Array customer.

He does say he bought some 250's and that he's worried because recones are no longer available for the LE14-1, and that he wants to buy some Le14-3's as spares. He thinks they should be available for buyers of Arrays, and he thinks he should be able to buy some of them even though he is not an Array customer.

There are probably other posters and readers here who would also like to buy drivers from JBL. We may be better at dealing with our disappointment. I think this poster's way of going about publicizing his unhappiness is bound to be unpleasant to loyal JBL folks, to say the least.

JBL is no longer in the retail hi fi driver business. The terms of buying drivers from them have changed.

I agree with the other posters who have suggested you work through your dealer.

If all you want is spares, what is the hurry?

Your credibility would increase at this point if you posted a photo of your 250's and yourself holding a copy of today's newspaper (if your town still has one).

[hjames]

To answer some questions:

1) Yes, i emailed Harman and the domain kicked back my email

Really?? Who did you write and where?

Usually mail to a bad domain bounces immediately, but as a test
I just wrote to that address "[email protected]".

HJ: at 4PM, its 10 minutes later, and MY mail didn't bounce ...
edit - 5PM, 1hr 10min later, still no bounced-back email...


from hjames ########@gmail.com
to [email protected]
date Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 3:50 PM

[villastrangiato]

Unlike most of the folks I've read comments from on here, I bought a NEW pair of 250ti's from a JBL dealer on Cape Cod, Ma in 1993 - not somebody's pieced together crap. I paid the list price for them ($5000) as they were Limited Edition units that had to be special ordered. Today, about 15 years later - 5k speakers back then like the B&W 801's or Quad ESL-63's are now selling in the 10k and up range.

I would be happy to buy recone kits if they were available. And according to a top notch JBL service center I've used in the past - the 14h-3's are less desireable than the 14h1's because the foam surrounds - although they are less durable - are substantially more compliant than the rubber ones found on the newer version of the driver. As a result, the low frequency resonance is raised significantly and response below 50hz is noticeably diminished from the original 14h1.

Loyalty is a two way street Dave. I've owned JBLs since 1978. The point I was trying to make is simple - why would someone invest 5 - 10 thousand dollars in something and have to worry if parts were available to fix it?

The LE14H-3 driver assemblies are currently out of stock - period. The LE14H1 recone kits are currently out of stock - not NLA as some misinformed people on this site have suggested. According to sources I have that have contacts both in JBL Consumer and JBL Pro - the LE14H1 recone kits will only be available again when enough orders come through to justify another production run. In the past, they've come through in batches of 20 units. Nowadays, they are down to batches of 10. The excuse is, they don't want to have them sit around too long because the foam deteriorates. To that I say - BULL&%#@!! With all the people on here that own L250's and, PS 1400's, 240ti's, and 250ti's, you can't tell me that a half dozen recone kits are going to sit around in Northridge for 10-12 years before being sold. I maybe gullible - but I'm not that stupid.
Furthermore, if you're so irritated with DIY'ers and "upgraders" either trying to build their own garbage with "off the shelf" JBL hardware or trying to upgrade old crap - most of you should look in the mirror before you go pointing fingers at people like me. I'm just trying to keep a good thing going - not get something for nothing. People like me are willing to pay good money to maintain our old stuff - partly because it makes good economic and environmental sense and partly because newer stuff is not better enough to warrant the triple and sometimes quadruple pricetag. This is true particularly when parts availability appears to be shakey at best - for new current products!
There are a couple of schools of thought a manufacturer can have here. Do I continue supporting existing customers with older equipment that still functions well - make money on support and eventually sell them a new replacement when their stuff wears out or do I make it harder to keep their old stuff going in the hopes they throw it away and buy one of the new 16 thousand dollar widgets that is sitting in a dealer stock room collecting dust?

I used to think Harman/JBL's philosophy was firmly in the former category. Not any more.

[Titanium Dome]

There are a couple of schools of thought a manufacturer can have here. Do I continue supporting existing customers with older equipment that still functions well - make money on support and eventually sell them a new replacement when their stuff wears out or do I make it harder to keep their old stuff going in the hopes they throw it away and buy one of the new 16 thousand dollar widgets that is sitting in a dealer stock room collecting dust?

I used to think Harman/JBL's philosophy was firmly in the former category. Not any more.

There's a contradiction here. It seems you have no need or desire to replace your almost 16 year old speakers, and I'd bet there are many JBL owners just like you. That being the case, it's disingenuous to make the weak statement that if Harman continues to support this legacy stuff grateful owners will allow Harman to

eventually sell them a new replacement when their stuff wears out

I don't see you or the majority of the folks on this forum holding that position. The fact is, you're not likely to buy the newer stuff either way. So, you invalidate your own argument.

That I can still, with a little patience, get on a waiting list and have a large company like Harman produce any part for a 15+ year old product is pretty remarkable.

[speakerdave]

I think you would find, if any of them care to rejoin this thread, which is doubtful, that some of the earlier responders are no more happy about the changes at JBL than you are. But . . . they are still doing better on this point of open stock replacement parts guarantee (what AR called it in the '60's and did until they were bought out by Teledyne) than most or all other speaker makers.

We recognize that JBL is not able to permanently write itself an exemption from current trends in business.

But . . . making your point by talking down a respected current product was not the way to go.

For comparison purposes, please note that one of JBL's most significant competitors, TAD, does not support discontinued drivers AT ALL.