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Thread: Help testing polarity on individual drivers 250TI

  1. #1
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    Help testing polarity on individual drivers 250TI

    I am using TIBQ XO on my 250TI speakers. In the tech manual sheet http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Te...0TiBQ%20ts.pdf it states "+ denotes outward cone movement with positive voltage applied to the red input terminal" and - for the opposite. For each of the 4 drivers it shows + for the 14-1 (14-3 in my case),-for the 108, + for the 104 and - for the 044.

    I hooked a spare no name speaker to each of the lower 3 connections with all other speakers dissconnected to test. I could tell on the 14 by seeing & feeling the movement of the cone and I am pretty sure but not 100% for the 108 but the 104 ???and I didn't even try the 044 connection.

    Is there another method to check individual driver cone movement w/a battery at the input terminal?

    Also on the 104 driver I didn't see an actual + or - label on the connectors but did note some writing on the frame directly next to the terminal and ASSUMED that meant +, was this correct?:dont-know

    I also ASSUME that CC coupling does not change any of the polarity issues, correct?

    Lastly (at this point ) since the 14 is outward movement when positive battery is on the posiitive (done by the XO I ASSUME [again]since an original TI XO is pos to pos causes inward cone movement) on the input this would make it "opposite" of the rest of my 120TI and 18TI used in this 7.2 system, where I reverse the the 120 and 18 so pos from amp goes to neg on speaker of these speakers?

    Thanks much,

    Mark
    Think center channel for 250TIs; (2) 108s, a 104 and a 44ti, now what?

  2. #2
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Let me grab some popcorn! It's bound to be a long evening.

  3. #3
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    From the voice of experience!! lol I thought these were strait forward questions and some old time experts probably know off the top of their heads.

    A method for testing cone movement if there is 1? maybe there isn't or it takes more equipment then I have,OK. That is the biggest question, the rest I am pretty sure I have.

    Maybe the writing on the frame of the 104, I bet someone know off the top of their head

    The hook up w/the rest of the system again I am pretty sure is correct (all other things being done properly)

    SO don't poo poo my thread because you can't take a little help on your overly complex setup(note friendly sarcasm just in case)

    Mark

    PS add some value to this if you know anything hahahahaha
    Think center channel for 250TIs; (2) 108s, a 104 and a 44ti, now what?

  4. #4
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Mark

    I just went through polarity hell on my L250Ti Jubilee clones. Be careful and verify what the drivers are actually doing with a 1.5 volt battery. You can't do the polarity test on any of the driver besides the woofer in the cabinet with the crossover connected. The other drivers all have series capacitors that block the DC. Don't do the battery test to the tweeter.

    On the Jubilee schematic they have the actual driver polarity not the wiring polarity so watch it in can get confusing.

    The LE-14H-3 and the 108H are standard JBL polarity. That means a + on the - terminal gives forward cone movement. The polarity on the 104H is set by the Fast-on Connectors. The Male is the Plus for conventional polarity so a + on the Male gives forward cone motion.


    As examples:

    The Le-14 is JBL standard so it it has a + you have to wire it up with the positive input on the Black negative driver lead.

    On the 108H Midrange it is - so because it is JBL standard the + goes to the + Red on the driver

    104H driver spec sheet:

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=5706

    On the Jubilee the 104H is +. That means you hook up to the male fast-on with the + side of the signal.


    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  5. #5
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    LE14H-1 and H-3 are postive polarity, I do believe.
    That is not correct please check the individual driver sheets in the Tech Section. He is using an Le-14H-3 which is JBL Standard

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Checked,

    Deleted.

    DRAT!

    All of my H-1s are from Citation 7.4 stock and have AES labels on them.

    [Drives me nutz here.... ]

  7. #7
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    DRAT!

    All of my H-1s are from Citation 7.4 stock and have AES labels on them.
    Did you check them with a battery?? You know my Urei 801C driver has the JBL Red terminal on the E-145 painted Black and the "new polarity" stencilled on the frame. What did they do to those??

    This shit will make your rip your hair out

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  8. #8
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    I'll check next time I open them up.

    If it were ME confusing everybody, I'd just put the red button on the black binding post, put my feet up on the bench, pop a cool one, and giggle for the duration.

    I s'pose it all makes sense to SOMEBODY....

  9. #9
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    Hi Rob, Zilch and all

    Thanks for answering.

    I did check the drivers before reinstalling. The 2 drivers in real question are the 108 and 14-3. I confirmed the neg output which matches the spec sheet for the 14-3, couldn't find the 108 sheet but it does the same as the 14 which you have confirmed. My 108 do not have faston connectors so that is probably why I have questions with them.

    The TIBQ sheet has a + marked for the 14 and - for the 108. This is where I am confused the 108 is neg polarity and it is marked that way in the diagram so this makes sense to me. The 14-1 and 3 are neg speakers but marked pos on the diagram. Since we know it is a neg speaker I assume these markings are after the XO.

    You state the Le1 is jbl standard so it has a + you have to wire it up with the positive input on the black terminal.

    This will give an outward cone movement with a battery + to input + on enclosure inputs, A)is this a correct statement?

    Lastly Since I am not 100% sure of my positive wire on the 108 I was thinking of taking a picture of the XO mounted in the enclosure and B)ask you to point out the positive wire. I am able to follow the wire once I am sure which one it is

    C)How does your woofer react + to + on the input(tested on the outside of the enclosure)?

    If anyone has an original TIBQ equipped 250ti would they mind doing the battery test on the outside of the enclosure and watching if their woofer moves in or out?

    I hope I made it the questions strait forward and easy to answer by labeling them A) ,B) and C)

    Thanks again

    Mark
    Think center channel for 250TIs; (2) 108s, a 104 and a 44ti, now what?

  10. #10
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Mark

    My 108 do not have faston connectors so that is probably why I have questions with them.
    Mine don't either they have the frame mounted plastic clips.

    The TIBQ sheet has a + marked for the 14 and - for the 108. This is where I am confused the 108 is neg polarity and it is marked that way in the diagram so this makes sense to me. The 14-1 and 3 are neg speakers but marked pos on the diagram. Since we know it is a neg speaker I assume these markings are after the XO.
    Welcome to hell

    Yes the markings are after the crossover. They are the actual driver cone directions with a voltage applied.

    A Yes!

    B White or any Solid Color

    C I have Le-14A's and Le14H-3's and 108H's and they all are JBL Standard so they go in with a + on the Red

    The Le-14 in the TBQ is wired so it will work like a standard polarity driver so opposite JBL's. So you want the + leg from the crossover on the - driver terminal.

    The 108H gets wired + to + becasue it also is a JBL standard driver and it will Go - with + on the + terminal

    Got That???

    The positive wire from the crossover for the 108H is the White. It should go to the Red Driver Terminal. If there is no White wire it is the Solid Color not the black stripe one.

    On the Le-14 its the Two Color Black Stripe to the Red Terminal. The Solid color goes to the Black Terminal.

    That's all on the wiring diagram.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Rob you are awesome to put up w/me , I need to take that picture and proceed; be back to this thread in a few days, don't go anywhere

    Mark

    And thanks for the welcome, lol
    Think center channel for 250TIs; (2) 108s, a 104 and a 44ti, now what?

  12. #12
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    Or you can stop wondering and get one of these.




    http://www.phase-it.com/

    It certainly lowered my stress levels significantly

  13. #13
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    Based on this diagram looking at the tweeter faston connectors http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Stu...eries/4408.pdf and and everything else such as hours of testing on the speaker, a mock set up of spares, reading the forum, the faston connectors, the tech manual markings on drivers the only flaw in the advice from Rob was the striped tape represents positive on this XO. the lower 3 drivers agree on the polarity before and after the XO.

    I have left Hell

    My hopefully last question follows this statement: the 044TI should have an inward motion based on the "-" tibq manual diagram. The reason for asking is the the 044 is not the original tweeter in tibq manual, the 35tia-1 is the original

    If the the striped is positive (based on all other connections working out) the connection at 044 is pos to pos as marked on the frame, does the tweeter produce an inward movement? It would need to JBL standard (pos to pos produce inward movement)and not EIA standard. Is there a chart or information like the LE matrix or anything which shows the polarity of this driver?

    Mark

    after creating this post i realized that the diagram for the 4408 shows the 35tia connected neg post to striped wire(positive), still may not be correct if the 35 tweeter is jbl standard but going ahead with this post anyway,long evening time for bed...but the last question above my name is still valid to a "-" at the tweeter and all will be good with the world and I am still out of Hell
    Think center channel for 250TIs; (2) 108s, a 104 and a 44ti, now what?

  14. #14
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    the tech manual markings on drivers the only flaw in the advice from Rob was the striped tape represents positive on this XO. the lower 3 drivers agree on the polarity before and after the XO.
    You mean that the LE-14, 108H, and 104H are all the same after the crossover?? Shouldn't be that way the 108H is run opposite the other 2 drivers.

    By the striped tape do you mean the X-Over wiring?? I didn't say it was that way across the board just on specific drivers.

    Polarity on JBL drivers and Systems

    The 4408 is a JBL Standard System so Negative

    http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/suppor...=241&doctype=3

    Rob
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    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    To start I have verified the 14-1 and 3 are jbl standard.

    To get the outward movement of the 14, "+" from the diagram, the striped tape lead after the XO must be on the black terminal on speaker. I did this on the actual speaker and a set spares I set up. I can actually see this, did it many times, it is not theory but seeing and not hard to actually see.

    Since the 14 is JBL standard this means the pos output from the XO must be on the neg terminal of the speaker which is the striped taped wire

    To get the "-" from the diagram on the 108 the opposite connection must be used since the 108 is JBL standard also The opposite is striped on the red terminal

    the 104 I verified is EIA standard from the spec sheet and the battery. The TIBQ tech diagram has this labled "+" . The faston connector has the striped wire from the XO (female) to the pos ternminal (male). This must be pos to pos to get the (+)

    All 3 follow the tech diagram of the "+" and the (-) labels as long as the striped taped wire is positive.

    for this to make sense;

    a) you have to believe I have verified the the speakers properly which in it self is not too difficult to perform
    b) the + and - from the tech are the final answer for desired results
    c) the faston connectors are correct which is the same idea as watching the 14 move

    This just leaves the 44 and the faston connectors to make sure I get the final (-) from the tech diagram.
    1) The faston connector on the striped wire is female.
    2) The origianal tweeter listed is a035 TIa-1.
    3) I do not know whether it is JBL or EIA standard or even what the male terminal of the 35 is pos or neg
    4) The male connector on the 044 tweeter is marked + on the frame so taking the striped as positive I have pos to pos on the tweeter but I don't know if the 044 is JBL standard or EIA (hoping for JBL)

    I may be wrong but my logic seems correct

    Rob thanks again for helping me

    Mark
    Think center channel for 250TIs; (2) 108s, a 104 and a 44ti, now what?

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