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Thread: A fine 4645 cabinet came home with me today!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    A fine 4645 cabinet came home with me today!

    Greetings, Friends,

    Well, as mentioned in the thread regarding 4645's birthday, today, I brought home a very nice JBL 4645 enclosure!! Grumpy very kindly made me a great deal on it, and he, Todd, and I got together today to play around with some sub comparisons, listen to some fun music, and share a fine lunch! Bart (Mech 986) tried to make it, too, but ended up with previous commitments that had to be honored. Good man, he!

    We three met up at Grumpy's place, and when Todd and I arrived, Grumpy had already installed a 2245H in one 4645 cabinet, and a 2242H in another, and there they sat, side by side, ready for some comparisons, measurements, and listening tests!! WOW! How much better does it get, eh?! Grumpy had already run some measurements, up close, and at 3 meters (if I recall correctly), and I was very, very surprised at how very close the performance of the 2245H and the 2242H are, in that same cabinet, tuned exactly the same!!! The computer graphs were, virtually, identical! The subs also sounded very, very close, playing the same material and at the same settings. It was very kind of Grumpy to have setup that testing and listening experience, and I really appreciated the chance to compare those two subwoofers, side by side. Even at low volume, both sub systems really added in some basement bass to most of the music we enjoyed. And, yes, we did load up the cannons, in the 1812 Overture, and got to see one of Grumpy's amps, a JBL, clip, just a tiny bit!! Made me remember the first time I played the digital version of that piece on our L300's. Our "little" 100WPC H/K amp went into protection mode, and clamped down on the volume for about 10-15 seconds!!! Scared the heck out of me!!

    In any case, we had a fine time with the listening and testing. When finished, we horsed up the single enclosure I'd bought from Grumpy, and loaded it into my Jeep for it's trip up the snowy mountains to it's new home. Then, we headed to Lucille's BBQ, which was a new place for me. There, we shared some fine BBQ, fun stories about myriad topics, and had an outstanding time! We did miss Bart, and hope he can make it next time, for sure. It's wonderful to have some JBL Friends close enough to get together like that, for food, fun, and friendship!! At Lucille's, we sang happy birthday to Todd, too, as tomorrow is his natal day, if I remember correctly. He's still a youngster, though, compared to some of us old geezers!!

    The day was over all too soon, and I took leave of Grumpy and Todd, and headed up the mountain, back home again. Once in the village, I stopped at the hardware store and bought 8 hex-headed bolts with which to install my 2242H woofer in the 4645 enclosure. Then, I headed a little higher up the mountain, and arrived home again, safe and sound. It took me a little while to get up the courage to undertake horsing that huge subwoofer enclosure up the many stairs, and into the house, but I finally managed it!! Whilst preparing for the task, I took some time to stretch out a bit, by hacking through some ice on our long driveway, and shoveling it off to the side. A few more days like today, which was nice, and we can have an ice-free driveway again!! Yahoo!!

    Thanks, again, Dave, for the great enclosure and for setting up the tests and listening opportunity. And, thanks to you and Todd for a fun day!! Take care, Friends, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc (who's 4645 ship has finally come in!!!)
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

  2. #2
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    Glad you and Todd could make it over...
    always a good time watching an 18" driver trying to escape from its frame.

    Should have tried stacking two 4645's on each side while there were 4 cabs here.



    Thanks for bringing the great recordings too, many of which were
    suggested by forum members, IIRC.

    BTW, Todd picked up 3 2405's today (which all measured out reasonably well)
    so there should be a large collective sigh of relief

  3. #3
    JBL 4645
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    Doc
    Nice it’s a nice one in the cinema that’s where it will most likely be heard or felt.


    I can’t say I feel comfortable with clipping, makes my skin crawl it does. I’d stick an audio limiter on the end of it with tiny amount of threshold to prevent it going over 0db and into clip.

    Or add a slightly large threshold number and then turn up the level it will make softer ones louder while keeping a tight restraint on the larger peaks that will in some cases damage the sub.

    Where can I get a good version or hear a good version that isn’t too dull or boring, came across a few on youtube in stereo, but wasn’t impressed at all. I guess there are many versions of the 1812. Including 5.1 mixes!

    Are there any possibilities of seeing these graphs.

    100watts to think I was crazy enough to run the sub once with Marantz 1050 I have no way of telling if that amp ever went into clip as there isn’t any LED display indicating this. Alesis RA300 bridge mode 300watts doesn’t seem like enough thou its easy to put out a few sine wave tones and hear them in small living room that is 5 meters long.

    Was there an graphic equalizer or spectrumlap connected up with the left and right outputs as this would show what lows where present as well as being sent off to the amp and the JBL4645.

  4. #4
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    I hope my 2245's jam as well as the one you guys jammed on today.

    That whole deal made quite an impact on the membership here. I know Doc was eyeballing the 4612's I ended up with, and grumpy had his eye on those 2245's. That both of them made out on some swag in the end makes me feel less guilty about scooping it up.

    Party on!

  5. #5
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    Hi Ash. No EQ was used, during listening just a JBL M553
    using a summed low output, set to 80Hz lowpass, internal 15Hz highpass,
    run into a (knowingly too small for digital cannons) bridged 6230, which
    should have been good for ~300w. I turned the volume down a small
    amount and replayed the old Telarc CD (ca 1979?)... no more clipping.
    It was expected. I never really listen at that level. I didn't feel like hauling
    out the 6290 Spectrum-wise, the cannons should be fairly wideband.

    Thanks for the kind words Jeff.

    -grumpy

    Plot below:
    Purple: 2242H/4518 1m, on center
    Light Red: 2242H/4518 driver, near-field
    Green: 2242H/4518 port, near-field
    Red: 2245H/4518 1m, on center
    Orange: 2245H/4518 driver, near-field
    Blue: 2245H/4518 port, near-field

    Much of the 1m measurement is room. No EQ or crossover in place for measurement.
    Interesting part is the similarity in response/tuning between drivers. Box tuning is
    spec'd at 30Hz with this (3-port) version of 4518 cab (1st gen 4645).
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  6. #6
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Evening, Grumpy,

    Great stuff, my Friend! Your measurement graphs really show how similar those two woofers are, and our ears pretty much verified that the graphs are right! I'm tickled!! Thanks, again, for setting all that up, and for taking the time to do the measurements and graphs. Both of your systems, the JBLs, and the K-stuff, sounded great to me, and both of them benefited from adding in the 4645 box, with either the 2245H, or the 2242H. Very nice sound, from both systems, Grumpy!

    Jeff, thanks for thinking about it that way! It DOES rather make it neat that so many benefited from a single transaction, doesn't it?!! LH, and many of the folks that inhabit it, are sharing folks, and I know that all of us appreciate that! I know that I do, BIG TIME!! Jeff, you say you are from the Texas panhandle, would that be Lubbock, or somewhere thereabouts? I was born and raised in Odessa, not too far from you, and went to Permian HS before moving to CA. I still miss Texas, for many reasons, but I'm a "mountain" man, now, and don't think I could live on the "flat" anymore. Take care, All, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc

    P.S. Got out all the goodies for hooking up the sub tonight, but I'm just too tired to do it! Getting old, I guess.... I'll do it after church tomorrow, and can hardly wait to see how it sounds!!
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    Interesting part is the similarity in response/tuning between drivers. Box tuning is
    spec'd at 30Hz with this (3-port) version of 4518 cab (1st gen 4645).
    Compare your graphs with these:

    Your red vs purple plots are the most interesting.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  8. #8
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Greetings, All,

    Though I'm stumbling around with the Ashly crossover, I do want to get the 4645 hooked up and running today, one way, or the other!

    Question: Have any of you placed a large subwoofer behind your equipment cabinets, and if so, how did that work out for you? Any problems? I am, basically, out of room, in our listening environment! I am planning to place the 4645 behind a screen, which now hides the incomplete 4333's. However, right now, I don't have a place for the 4333's, and so it's best that they remain where they are. At first, I'm just going to leave the 4645 out in the open. But, later, I'm thinking about hiding it behind our stereo cabinet, which does have enough room between it and the wall behind it, to do the trick. What say you, Folks? Good, fair, or poor idea?! Thanks, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc

    P.S. MANY thanks for Baron030 for his having sent me a veritable TON of information on using the Ashly crossover, quite a while ago!!! Since I'm only going to use it for the sub, right now, and not as a four-way system, I'm still more than a little daunted by hooking it up, even in that limited capacity. But, without the great info you sent, I'd be TOTALLY lost, instead of just a mite confused! Thanks, again!!
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

  9. #9
    Dis Member mikebake's Avatar
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    I wouldn't recommend it for several reasons.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Hey, Mike,

    Thanks for the recommendation. I would like to learn why you offered that one, in particular, just so I can educate myself to such things. One thought I had is that the sub would be firing directly into amps, a receiver, eq, etc,., and the direct vibrations, so very close, might loosen components in any, or all, of them. Am I right, or just pissing in the wind?! Thanks, again, and I look forward to hearing what you have to say. Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc (who's now installed the 2242H in my "new" 4645, and can hardly wait to move forward!! Unfortunately, we got few orders today, and so I must shelve plans to continue with the audio stuff, and do some actual work today! Shucks!! Oh, well..... work is what has helped me to earn enough to be able to gather all the nice JBL goodies I know own, so I'll not complain! Talk later, Mike, and thanks, again!
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Evening, All,

    Well, it's 6:22 PM and the sub is still not hooked up and running. Lots of work today, plus I decided I really needed to shovel most of the snow off our carport roof today, too. It was still up to my knees, and quite heavy. If we get rain, which it appears we're going to get, and it freezes, then there will be NO getting that heavy snow off the roof, and we risk having the whole thing come down if it gets too heavy. So, I did what I "had" to do, rather than what I wanted to do! I still have a bit more snow to shovel tomorrow, plus a little more ice in the driveway, down by the street. Then, I'll be all ready for our next series of storms!

    I also found out that I need a 12 foot connector cable to reach the Crown DC300A amp that's going to power the 4645 cabinet. In it's bridged mode, I believe it will do the trick, especially in our home. But, where the sub sits now, with the amp on top of it, I have no cables that will allow me to hook it all up. Do, tomorrow, I'll take a break from work, and snow/ice shoveling, and head down into the village, where I can score one 12 cable, hopefully. Otherwise, I think I'll all set to go. And also, after reading what Baron030 sent me, and the Ashly manual, and after doing a "stare and compare" on the 4001, I think I've about figured that one out, too. So, tomorrow should be a good day! Plus, Sweet Bride returns home tomorrow, late, from her latest out of State gig! How much better does it get, eh??!!

    BTW, that 4645 cabinet, with my 2242H installed inside, sure looks WONDERFUL!! I hope it sounds as good as did it's twin, at Grumpy's!! Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

  12. #12
    Dis Member mikebake's Avatar
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    The effect on the gear is one reason. I also don't want the wave off the front of the driver impacting solid objects that close to it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Mark View Post
    Jeff, you say you are from the Texas panhandle, would that be Lubbock, or somewhere thereabouts? I was born and raised in Odessa, not too far from you, and went to Permian HS before moving to CA. I still miss Texas, for many reasons, but I'm a "mountain" man, now, and don't think I could live on the "flat" anymore. Take care, All, and God Bless!
    I'm a bit farther north than Lubbock, farther north than Amarillo, in the small town of Pampa. It's flat and you can still shovel snow.

  14. #14
    Obviously... not a golfer grumpy's Avatar
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    Compare your graphs with these:
    Thanks for the re-pop of those plots...
    yeah... had those in mind when taking the measurements.
    Was a little surprised that the in-room differences appeared smaller
    (understanding that these weren't intended as critical measurements).

    Mark, as you get more into this last octave thing, you might want to
    look into an LF EQ, especially if placement options are limited.
    (and lay off the digital cannons )

  15. #15
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Hey, Grumpy,

    OK, I'll be careful when loading up those digital cannons, and promise to fire them only under close scrutiny and care!!

    When our local Rat Shack opens up this morning, I'll head down to the village to pick up a longer signal cable. Then, I can hook up the works and see how it sounds! I fully expect it to sound "different" than at you place, as we have lots of wood in our home, and no regular carpet, though we do have rugs here and there. Also, our open beam ceiling is also wood, T&G pine, so I am prepared for a different sound than we enjoyed at your home. I played the Boz Scaggs "Dig", and Jennifer Warnes "The Hunter" CD's again last night, and they sound very different than they did at your place. I believe that is because of the differences in surface materials in our homes, and also because I've got the bottom end on the L300's goosed up at 30HZ. In any case, I'm excited to see how everything integrates in our home, and have high hopes that it will be just fine!! Talk to you later, my Friend, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

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