New K2 S9900

[JeffW]

So the guy says he's an installer of HTs and home audio, etc., and he's just finished a job and the customer didn't like the speakers. They were too big, and besides, they weren't Bose.

So the "installer" says maybe I'd like to buy them. Cheap. They're already paid for and he can't take them back. So he shows me what's in the van.

So THAT's what they mean by "white van speakers"!

[grumpy]

I may get some LH and AVS folks to come over and bring their best amp, pre, player, whatever, and have a test fest to see whose gear has the goods to make these beauties really stand out.

I humbly suggest putting the emphasis on the source end and working your way
toward the speakers, as a way to continue to hear improvements (I'd settle on a
long-term amp last ... if I were fortunate enough for it to be me )

I'm not saying to use crud for an amp meanwhile, just that a largish amp investment
(or not) might make more sense after the rest has been sorted out, such that a better
determination can be made.

Awesome to have such "problems" and kudos to Widget toward making this happen!

[Mr. Widget]

I humbly suggest putting the emphasis on the source end and working your way
toward the speakers, as a way to continue to hear improvements (I'd settle on a
long-term amp last ... if I were fortunate enough for it be me )

I'm not saying to use crud for an amp meanwhile, just that a largish amp investment
(or not) might make more sense after the rest has been sorted out, such that a better
determination can be made.

I completely agree!

I wouldn't have been quite so generous to Mr. Dome had I had a few extra Gs lying around... Perhaps more than a few...but it certainly is good to see that they went to a good home.


Widget

[louped garouv]

So THAT's what they mean by "white van speakers"!

LoL


congrats TiDome...

[Titanium Dome]

I humbly suggest putting the emphasis on the source end and working your way
toward the speakers, as a way to continue to hear improvements

I completely agree!


Widget

Well, I do have a boatload of amps I can rotate, though the 4125 seems to be doing the job with aplomb right now.

The pre and the source are certainly more immediate. One thing I will do soon is pull the Oppo BDP-83SE out of the rack and bring it up for a test run. That analog section is awfully good, so it's a good first step.

As for the pre, I've really got nothing except the Citation that I'd consider, and it's doing so well with the XPL200s that I hate to pull it. OTOH, it will help me to determine if the P100 is hurting the overall sound at all. I suspect it's "not helping."

I guess I could hook up the SDP-5 (Lexicon MC-8), too. I'm not too familiar with its stereo capabilities.

[grumpy]

I've got an old, analog Proceed PRE (2-ch preamp) you could play with (rca + XLR outs, two sets of XLR-in),
that wouldn't put me out... and a 'matching' AMP-2 for that matter.

[rdgrimes]

As for the pre, I've really got nothing except the Citation that I'd consider, and it's doing so well with the XPL200s that I hate to pull it. OTOH, it will help me to determine if the P100 is hurting the overall sound at all. I suspect it's "not helping."

I guess I could hook up the SDP-5 (Lexicon MC-8), too. I'm not too familiar with its stereo capabilities.

100% pure analog is the way to go. No digital pre-amps or receivers need apply. They almost all will do an A-D-A conversion. That alone will reduce any benefits you'd get from the Oppo. Also, with the latest public firmware for the Oppo, the player's volume control is done in the DACs, so you can hook it direct to an amp with no pre-amp at all. Just be sure to lower the player's volume before you start a disc.

[grumpy]

the player's volume control is done in the DACs

I admittedly, haven't read up on the oppo's latest firmware or the Sabre DAC/buffer
architecture (recently), but I would hope that the quote above is really shorthand for
something else... such as some digitally-controlled volume control, in-chip,
done -after- the DAC proper.

OK, I re-read (ESS Sabre paper/specs). I would reserve judgment for actual listening tests,
but the in-chip volume control is pre-DAC ("a DSP function")... generally not optimum, even if
convenient and well balanced channel-to-channel. Fine as a muting function

[tom1040]

TD-first of all, awesome score. Secondly, thanks for your support in another thread. Third, and more to my interest, how freaking big is your abode to handle all those systems(speakers)? I have a modest home on the coast of Maine with 3 independant systems(albeit one is in a small bedroom(L5's/w/Sansui G-8000).

Just kidding you. I have a bother in law who is a CFP in/near Palm Springs that just bought a large house......it would seem real estate is a bargain there?

No matter, enjoy those awesome speakers.

[rdgrimes]

I admittedly, haven't read up on the oppo's latest firmware or the Sabre DAC/buffer
architecture (recently), but I would hope that the quote above is really shorthand for
something else... such as some digitally-controlled volume control, in-chip,
done -after- the DAC proper.

OK, I re-read (ESS Sabre paper/specs). I would reserve judgment for actual listening tests,
but the in-chip volume control is pre-DAC ("a DSP function")... generally not optimum, even if
convenient and well balanced channel-to-channel. Fine as a muting function

Yes, it's a digital volume control and does occur in the DAC chips. It does "truncate" the signal especially below 80% volume. Oppo did a lot of testing on this and found this route to be identical in listening tests to using the decoder chip's volume control. They also found no "audible" shortcomings to using the digital volume compared to any other method. YMMV and this is certainly a topic for another thread. The gist of it is that the Oppo CAN be used without any pre-amp at all and a number of folks are doing so and love it. It works the same in both the Sabre chips of the -83SE and the Cirrus chips in the -83. One reason they did this was to enable volume control while using the "DSD mode" on SACDs.

[Mr. Widget]

I've got an old, analog Proceed PRE (2-ch preamp) you could play with (rca + XLR outs, two sets of XLR-in),
that wouldn't put me out... and a 'matching' AMP-2 for that matter.

Please take them to him! I am not particularly familiar with Proceed, but in my experience virtually any dedicated analog separate preamp will be light years ahead of all but the very, very, best DSPized gear.

OK, I re-read (ESS Sabre paper/specs). I would reserve judgment for actual listening tests,
but the in-chip volume control is pre-DAC ("a DSP function")... generally not optimum...

Months ago I did carefully listen to the Oppos in their two channel analog state... the SE was a great bang for the buck, but certainly not in the league of the K2s.

The bottom line is that now that there are K2s in the system, you don't want to smother them with an inferior signal.


Widget

[caladois]

Solution,will come with new or used High end product (Bryston, Pass labs, Boulder, ML, Krell, Threshold ect...) or real professionnal gear (JMF-Audio, FM-Acoustics, Crest, Lab gruppen, MC2, Studer...) !!!

We are waiting for pictures now, and listening details...

[4313B]

So... what does one spend on gear to run a pair of $40k loudspeakers? Another $40k? Half that? Twice that?

What about all that gear in a less than optimal room? Does that change the game? What is the goal? To eliminate all possible weak links except the room?

[caladois]

First, you are right, the room speaker position is far not optimal (back Wall, corner, axis ect...). But let him the time, to find the proper set up.
Then, if he got the same chance, tne rest of the gear won't be a problem, either on second hand market !

[grumpy]

It's a 'tuffy' alright. Not everyone can set up an optimized and completely dedicated space
like Valentin, let alone a second one (I -imagine-, even that well-though-out installation had
minor compromises and things that would have been done differently in hindsight).

Optimizing the listening experience within a set area and -somewhat- malleable environment
(positions, surfaces, ...dare I say EQ, etc...) is a challenge for all home installations,
no matter the cost of the speakers. This pair would seem particularly worthy of a very high
level of consideration and priority regarding placement, seating,... but again, this is
something that all systems could benefit from.