New K2 S9900

[Hoerninger]

Strange, I don't have any DTS discs that don't have the pure DVD-A section.

All of my "DTS 5.1 Music discs" are CDs as the player indicates.

The player indicates "DVD-Audio" when it is.

And then there are the Video DVDs often with DTS, PCM (and Dolby).
?
___________
Peter

[boputnam]

The K2 s are so effortless even at moderate volumes that we could talk as we normally do at dinner, and still the music played on in excellent fidelity....

Nice quote, Doug. Excellent appraisal. I know I liked them at the show - glad they found a proper home.

Your description reminds me of the awe I still have at the full range tonality of the 2245 in the 4345 - it is not something I've heard any other driver do so well.

I might have to plan a visit to your listening rooms - one of these days...

[Titanium Dome]

Grumpy and I spent 4 to 5 hours taking the K2s from my rudimentary set up to a state of "getting close" yesterday. Getting close is a relative designation, since even in the rudimentary set up they were of holy-cow-that's-amazing-blow-my-mind-are-you-kidding-me status if compared to most of the other stuff I've got around here. Key ingredients are two good ears (his) and lots of patience and perseverance.

We started with the amps on hand. After swapping and listening, we agreed that the preferred amp from those I brought in is the Hafler SR2600. Yep, it's a pro amp, 600W/ch, 5 Hz to 100 kHz, balanced, and kind of ugly. It stood out for its powerful control of the woofer and its clean sound from top to bottom. Grumpy reminded me that we were only using a few Watts most of the time, then he started doing some calcs out loud which kind of escaped me as I zz-zz-zz-Z-ZZ-ZZZ! Huh? Oh yeah. (Kidding, Dave) It sounded good.

We might have had a slightly better result in the high end with the Fosgate Audionics 4125, but I actually couldn't hear any difference, and we both definitely heard the improvement in the K2's bottom end with the Hafler.

After that, we swapped out the SDP-5 for his Proceed pre. This meant we depended on the DAC in the Panasonic XP50 instead of the SDP-5's, since the Proceed is strictly analog. With that change, the HF was less bright and IMO less strident. I thought in the music mode the SDP-5 was too hot up top, so I welcomed the change. Grumpy can make his own comments on that.

Then we spent an hour or two moving the K2s forward, backward, forward. We also toed-in, toed-out, toed-in. We moved the Presence and HF controls on the K2 (+ or - 0.5 dB max). We listened and listened. Dave occupied the key seat, since he could hear well out of both ears and is an experienced listener. I figured once it sounded right to him, we'd be in the game.

At a certain point, we got to where an inch forward or an inch backward had a noticeable effect on the sound, particularly the LF extension. Small changes forward, backward, or in the angle of toe-in were audible, even to me. We knew we'd found an important spot and spent a while making what some would consider ridiculously small adjustments. He made some final (and unobserved by me) adjustments on the K2s back controls, and, well, we were there!

The whole thing reminded me of the set up for the L7s that I have gone though more than once, but the result was far more dramatic and so clear. It's simply amazing how a little placement adjustment changes things.

Now it's time to live with them for a few days to see how I settle in with them. One thing that will take some getting used to is how bad some recordings sound, especially some of my favorite pop music. The K2s do not cut over-compressed, artificially boosted mixes any slack. Some things I'll just need to listen to on lesser systems.

Afterward, we went to the 710 Grill for beers, an elk burger, and level 2 of their famous chicken wings, in this case Scorcher plus. Next time, it's the Ring of Fire. We both had some sweat running down our brows.

Then Grumpy packed up and went home.

Later, I'll reveal what happened next.

[BMWCCA]

Later, I'll reveal what happened next.

Using your wife's words, I'm guessing.

Please keep it G-rated!

[grumpy]

... noting that level 2 was the penultimate in wing hotness,
not one up from the weakest. I'm -quite- sure I understand
the rationale for the hottest variety being called "Ring of
Fire"

Ok then.

I wasn't surprised the the big Hafler amp grabbed the K2s
by the cojones... I was a little surprised that it matched
the Fosgates up top. Interestingly, other than on a -very-
few tracks, the need for a sub just wasn't there for me.

The swap from the SDP-5 to the Proceed PRE, was initially
puzzling, as it seemed some top end was lost ... Longer
listening (all of the remaining hours) was illuminating...
We -could- listen for hours, where the SDP seemed a bit
more detailed... but sort of like an over bright or
contrasty picture, it was tiring after a short period... The PRE
in this combination, did not. I was bummed when it was
time to leave ... I still had more discs!

It would still be interesting to hear how the K2s resolve
with a potentially higher quality source

[Titanium Dome]

Later, I'll reveal what happened next.

After Grumpy left, I cleaned up the litter of amps, cables, and other stuff, then Huiky said she was hungry, so we went out for Korean food. On the way home she suggested we get a movie, so we stopped at Target, rushed in, bought a couple of cheap Blurays, and went home to watch Speed. (Yes, really, and I enjoyed it! )

When we went back up to the main floor, she said, "Let's listen to some music. I want to hear what you guys did." So I threw on Saxophonic (Dave Koz) and we started to listen. It really was very, very good, like the first time I'd ever heard it, even though I've played it scores of times.

About two songs in she said, "Let's drink some wine." Being a romantic I replied, "No, it's too late." Of course I immediately knew how stupid that was and recoverd by blurting out, "Let's have champagne instead." Thankfully I had a bottle in the beverage fridge.

So, we sipped champagne, snuggled a little, and remarked a lot about how good the K2s were.

"I really like to listen to music."

So we listened for two hours.

---------------

When we came home this evening, the first order of business was to sit down and listen to music again. I picked up Brian Wilsons' Gershwin Reimagined CD, so I put it on. It was weird, like being back in college and bringing a new LP to the dorm, putting it on the Dual 1219 and listening to it through the L100s with my friends. Now I was doing that with my best friend 40 years later. And still listening to JBLs.

I thought about how the K2s had wrought a significant shift in our evenings. Almost magically they transformed our routine into something shared and enjoyed.

That's what makes the K2s in music and the One Array system in movies such a worthwhile investment: the shared joy and the sense of personal community they create when done right and used correctly. It's nice to show them off, I suppose, but the day-to-day utility is what really matters: do they make our lives better?

Undoubtedly.

[Hoerninger]

. but that is another discussion for another time.

In short it is a question of a calm mind and meditation. This forum is the wrong place, it should be discussed face to face. t is not a question of time.
___________
Peter

[scott fitlin]

It's nice to show them off, I suppose, but the day-to-day utility is what really matters: do they make our lives better?

Undoubtedly.

Agreed. You got value in these speakers. Many speakers on the market that sound good, are technically good, but NOT many that convey such a sense of emotional involvement. Great music through a system like this, is what the legends are all about, and I believe that music through your speakers does get you, and others to achieve emotional connection, as well as just plain enjoyment.

I'm betting these may be your last speakers! In these you got value, a value that will be hard to beat, NOW or in the future, these are the keepers.

And I believe in the things your describing, too. YES great music through a system like this can and does improve our lives, and well being!

[richluvsound]

Thanks for that Doug.

Your quite a wordsworth on your day I can imagine Mr Lansing smiling away as he reads your words too ; joyful in knowing that his hard work and sentiment are still, both , honoured and shared respectively.

I was reading through some very early threads yesterday researching my next project. It was so much fun. I smiled laughed and ,ofcourse, tut-tutted as I renewed that sense of wonder that I felt in 2006 when I first joined the forum.

Wow, so much has happened in these few short years. We have lost dear and highly respected members and friends ,jobs, relationships and suffered the worst economical crash since the 30's.
Serious ,and in some cases fatal illness has been at the forefront of many lives here . Understandably , the focus has shifted from play to survival for many of us . The air has become cynical and unfriendly , a current of frustration simmers just below the surface fracturing what was once such a fun,friendly and helpful domain.

I ,myself, have not always behaved in a manner that I could be proud of.But , in spite of my arrogance and denial my droppings do stink too.

Is there anyway that shared sense of COMMUNITY can resurface and flourish once again ? I ,for one , miss it greatly .

As for this thread ,well , I would just like to thank Doug for his diary and those that have contributed ( its a bit of an oasis ,all this joy and stuff.
To those that have come here ,gleaned what was needed and left nothing of value in return.......
I can say nothing about that really, only that this forum important to some for whatever reason ,please respect it ...

Rich

[christo]

I’ve been monitoring the thread and enjoying reading Titanium Dome’s enthusiasm for the K2s I went through the much of the same thing when I acquired my K2 S9900’s last February.

We probably had the same idea get ahold of these speakers and hooked them up with our existing gear and things would be good…not so fast.

I’ll tell you the story of the first night the K2s where delivered…

The good gentlemen from the establishment where I made my purchased brought them over, set them up and we started to spin a few songs, after a while my wife came down and had a listen (current disk spinning was Propellerheads – deckanddrumsandrockandroll)…yup had it loud…song ended and she looks over at me and said “Is that it?”…

Well she had a point…for a speaker of that caliber the sound was disappointing I actually sat around in a funk for a few days could not even bring myself to turn them on. The basic problem was the 1500AL-1s where not doing what I knew they could and had hear them doing when I auditioned them.

So the moral of the story…K2s are merciless on your gear they will shine a BIG BRIGHT spotlight on all weak links in the chain, source, preamp, amp, interconnect cable speaker cables…So down the upgrade path I went...

The gear at the time was an Esoteric X-05 as the source (absolutely beautiful machine was sorry to have to part with it) Carver Lightstar Direct Preamp with a Carver Lightstar Reference 2.0 amp (300wpc).

I have to agree with Ian Mackenzie K2s “power amplifier with finesse and real power” then proceed upstream and don’t forget about cables.

I’ll leave you with a little K2 humor, two quotes from the K2 user guide

There is no effective limit to the power handling capabilities of the Project K2 S9900 loudspeakers when driven by consumer audio amplifiers.

Maximum Recommended Amplifier Power: 500 Watts


Seem like a contradiction to me

Ah… just substitute the word Maximum with Minimum and then things start to sound oh so right.

[scott fitlin]

OK, that makes sense to me, the 1500AL likes some good current to get it going!

Generally speaking, todays premium woofers fair well with an ampifier that can deliever lots of current and voltage, and you say you heard the K2 sing at the dealers showroom when you first heard them, particularly the 1500AL!

WHAT were they powering the K2 with at the showroom? Didn't the dealer at least try to recommend an amp that was very well suited to driving the K2 for you? In my opinion, I have never met a speaker that wasn't amp sensitive, and usually, there is ONE or two particular amplifiers that make a certain set of speakers perform optimally!

[Titanium Dome]

Welcome to Lansing Heritage, and thanks for sharing your K2 experience.

I know exactly what you mean by funk. There was no doubt in my mind that the K2s were phenomenal loudspeakers as I heard them at the California Audio Show. However, getting them home and set up was a real test of faith, because they did not give the same impression.

Of course, all is well now and will only get better as I am able to improve the chain piece by piece.

[Mr. Widget]

I’ll leave you with a little K2 humor, two quotes from the K2 user guide

There is no effective limit to the power handling capabilities of the Project K2 S9900 loudspeakers when driven by consumer audio amplifiers.

Maximum Recommended Amplifier Power: 500 Watts


Seem like a contradiction to me

Ah… just substitute the word Maximum with Minimum and then things start to sound oh so right.

I've read comments like that quite a lot over the years about all manner of speakers.

When I had the K2-S9900s in my home, I used an 80 wpc amp and thought they sounded great. I like realistic levels, but not ear bleeding levels... the K2s are pretty sensitive and would put out peaks of 110dB in my room with that "tiny" amp... I think the quality of the amp is critical, huge reserves of power? I guess... if that is your thing. For me, I can be quite happy with a whole lot less horsepower.

Widget

[Titanium Dome]

I think damping factor is a key. The Hafler SR2600 has a damping factor >500. That's more important than its 600W/ch power rating.

Sometimes there's a correlation between damping ability and power, but I've heard a lot of high powered amps that couldn't damp worth a darn.

[scott fitlin]

I think damping factor is a key. The Hafler SR2600 has a damping factor >500. That's more important than its 600W/ch power rating.

Sometimes there's a correlation between damping ability and power, but I've heard a lot of high powered amps that couldn't damp worth a darn.

Exactly! And I like my bass tight sounding, and if one uses a amp with a low damping factor, you get, sometimes, a LARGER sounding bottom, but less tight, and agile. With JBL speakers, I have always had great results using amps that have a high damping factor.

For me, it just doesn't matter HOW MUCH bass I have, IF the bass I have is not what I consider musical, and articulate, and agile.

I agree, there is MORE to selecting and matching an amp to your speakers than JUST the POWER rating!