LE14A + LE85/HL91 + which crossover?

[tomee]

I'd like to know which JBL crossovers would work to put the LE14A together with an LE85 (or 2420, or LE75, modern equivalent) and the HL91 horn/lens. JBL sold such a system, called the S14, using the LX7 crossover. I asked about the LX7 crossover here...
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ad.php?t=25293

I'm wondering if a different crossover would work. N1200, LX-8, LX-10, and N200B, all seem like good candidates if the LX7 can't be located.

I've seen Zilch's Q&D thread, and the Ewave on AK, and almost every LE14 project I could find here so I know there are lots of options for using the LE14A. But I'm really curious about what an all-vintage-all-JBL system would be like and I think the way to find out is to try it. Buying an L300 or L200 is not possible, so I thought I'd try this. If I don't like it, it seems that if I stick with good JBL components it should be a cost-recoverable experiment.

I find it hard to believe I'd be the first person to try to do this - anyone here with experience with this driver combination?

[speakerdave]

You're talking about JBL's Lancer 101 or S101; it uses the LX10. Schematic in this thread:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=1684

This arrangement lets the woofer run full range, which obviates the necessity and problems of having an inductor in front of the woofer.

That system used the potato masher horn, not the slant plate diffuser, so the tonal balance of the speaker may be somewhat different.

By the way, this is old technology, and I don't know why anyone would build it nowadays, except, as you say, to find out what the old systems sound like. But if that's what you want, you must build them exactly the same.

[tomee]

SpeakerDave, thanks for the advice. I'm fully aware of the old-tech aspect - part of the allure in a way. Sort of like driving around in an old Camaro instead of a new car. Plenty of people running restored JBL 43xx systems as well as AR3's and Large Advents and happy with them. I'm not expecting anything to blow away the current top end JBL systems but to see how it would stack up against the other 1970's speakers I've got. When finances allow I'd like to build a system based on JBL drivers from the 21st century (2435, etc..) but that's a few years off for now.

I've ruled out the use of the S101 circuit because of the reports I've read of how it sounds (possibly due to the full-range woofer). I think I'm going to keep searching for that LX7 crossover schematic that JBL designed to go with the LE85/HL91, unless someone here has a better idea. In the mean time I'm studying all the JBL crossovers to try to learn something.

[jbl]

[quote=speakerdave;254528]You're talking about JBL's Lancer 101 or S101; it uses the LX10. Schematic in this thread:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ead.php?t=1684
Not really. The L101 used the 175 (2410) driver.

[speakerdave]

. . . . Not really. The L101 used the 175 (2410) driver.

Picky, picky, picky! Yeah, I guess you're right, and I know many people prefer the smaller-magneted 1" drivers. However, JBL treated the two, LE175 and LE85, as interchangeable in the system charts in those days (see the 1976 cat.). You're not asking the OP to go out and find new compression drivers, are you?

The 2410 would be phenolic.

[Zilch]

According to Ethos:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...7573#post37573

http://lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/.../1976-comp.htm

[tomee]

According to Ethos:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...7573#post37573

http://lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/.../1976-comp.htm

Thanks Zilch. I'm really interested in the S14, from 1964
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...964/page39.jpg
..all of $54 less than the S7 system, and fits in a smaller box too!

using the LX7 crossover...
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...964/page19.jpg

and I also see it in the 1964 Metregon as the S92 package...
http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...964/page26.jpg

I've spent several evenings searching for an LX7 schematic or even a reference to it. One mention here of someone using one and I sent them a PM, but searching Google I don't find too much on the S14 or LX7 crossover.

[Zilch]

I don't know what LX7 or LX80A are, but there is someone here who likely does. Just have to tweak his interest, is all, and me posting here may comprise the requisite trigger.

I suspect they're approaching 3110, which is what I'd be using, but those are tough to DIY since there's a tapped autotransformer. An equivalent could be developed, but nobody's willing to invest the effort.

For that, I'd punt and use the N200B without the HF boost. See the "Keeper" crossover Todd and I designed.

The conundrum here is, "I wanna try a crappy old design, but I'd prefer a less crappy one...."

[tomee]

I don't know what LX7 or LX80A are, but there is someone here who likely does. Just have to tweak his interest, is all, and me posting here may comprise the requisite trigger.

I suspect they're approaching 3110, which is what I'd be using, but those are tough to DIY since there's a tapped autotransformer. An equivalent could be developed, but nobody's willing to invest the effort.

For that, I'd punt and use the N200B without the HF boost. See the "Keeper" crossover Todd and I designed.

The conundrum here is, "I wanna try a crappy old design, but I'd prefer a less crappy one...."

Well, I'm not sure who it is that knows the answers (I'll guess it's 4313B?), but I thought this being 'Lansing Heritage' it would be the best place to look. I take it you mean that it's a 'crappy' design compared to what's available today, not when it was new. If was so bad compared to everything else on the market back then I can't see how JBL cold have survived. Looking into my 1964 Allied catalog I see very few speakers that today would be considered as good or better than JBL at the time - and most of those companies are long gone or just marketed as names today (AR and Altec come to mind).

I'll keep an eye open for these mystery crossovers, and keep playing around with the Ewave setup I currently have the LE14s coupled with.

[Zilch]

I take it you mean that it's a 'crappy' design compared to what's available today, not when it was new. If was so bad compared to everything else on the market back then I can't see how JBL cold have survived. Looking into my 1964 Allied catalog I see very few speakers that today would be considered as good or better than JBL at the time - and most of those companies are long gone or just marketed as names today (AR and Altec come to mind).

Yes, that's correct. There's no denying they did exceedingly well in context of their time, and some hold their own today, too, as most here know from experience. I am referring to your earlier observation regarding L101, actually, in good spirit....

[tomee]

Yes, that's correct. There's no denying they did exceedingly well in context of their time, and some hold their own today, too, as most here know from experience. I am referring to your earlier observation regarding L101, actually, in good spirit....

OK - I get it now. Full range woofers vs. a 'real' crossover like the LX5 and all that.

[Zilch]

LE14As have certainly stood the test of time, and it doesn't get much sweeter than LE85s with the original tangential aluminum diaphragms, in my book. You've picked a worthy combination....

[4313B]

I posted various schametics here:

Network Schematics

Note that the 124A/H (2203A/H), LE14A/H, and 136A/H (2231A/H) were often lumped together due to their sharing the same motor assembly (voice coil, top plate, magnet, etc.)

[Zilch]

Thank you, 4313B!

Those certainly fill in some gaps in the knowledge base here....

[tomee]

I posted various schametics here:

Network Schematics

Note that the 124A/H (2203A/H), LE14A/H, and 136A/H (2231A/H) were often lumped together due to their sharing the same motor assembly (voice coil, top plate, magnet, etc.)

Wow, thanks! That's the first schematic I've seen anywhere for the LX7, and I hadn't seen the LX80 option until Zilch mentioned it - thank you very much for digging that out and posting it here! Much appreciated.

Now I have to track down some horns, lens, and drivers....