Dance and Trance Me

[Titanium Dome]

TD, what are some of the artists of this new (to me) genre. I dont know if Sound Tribe Sector 9 falls into this category but its certainly fun stuff. I actually just ordered some cd's today, Thrillseekers, some Armin van Buuren, and a couple of other STS9 cds. No really sure what to expect but some of it was certainly interesting to say the least. Not a big techno or dance kind of guy but what I've heard so far was pretty cool.

Hipno! the next frontier (does it exist already!?)

No, sorry, got to disagree here.

Now, the typical stuff heard on the radio can be a bit cheesey, or just downright lame, BUT, I find trance, stuff that has much melody, and IS music, IN EVERY SENSE!

Check out A trance tune called Sunday Morning Walk by Arney S, available at www.beatport.com. IT IS NOT NOISE! It's music, and this is why I can play the music I do, because i SEARCH for my music, thru tons of pop music ca-ca, and in general mediocre wannabe drivel, BUT, there is certainly music in every genre, and every type of music style.

You cannot judge these genres, by what you hear on the radio stations. Because what a GREAT DJ plays in a club, is so vastly different from commercial cheesey radio tunes.

There is another level, the next plateau, a HIGHER STATE OF BEING!

And some very symphonic, and orchestral sounding, well made, musical, high quality, AMAZINGLY well produced trance, techno, and house music, BUT you don't hear it on the radio, XM, or Sirius!

Scott's right, you have to dig a little to find the treasure, but it's not that hard to uncover. You just have to move away from the typical outlets, like traditional music stores, radio, regular online distributors, cable music channels, etc.

Most of the good stuff won't be on a physical disc; in fact a lot of the good stuff won't fit on a disc. It'll be online.

Adriatic (DJ from the former Yugoslavia)
DJ Serhan (from Istanbul)
Voyi (from Budapest)
TufTribe (from Miami)
Suzy Solar (from Tampa Bay)
Fatima Hajji (from Spain)
DJ Trinity (from New York)
Cosmic Ally (from Seoul)

Well, heck, I could go on and on. Point is, some listeners will like some of it, some will like none of it, and some will like all of it. But until it is heard, one can only comment out of ignorance.

As I recall, my parents didn't want to hear the Beatles, Stones, Who, Led Zep, Deep Purple, etc. because "it's not music."

[scott fitlin]

Scott's right, you have to dig a little to find the treasure, but it's not that hard to uncover. You just have to move away from the typical outlets, like traditional music stores, radio, regular online distributors, cable music channels, etc.

Most of the good stuff won't be on a physical disc; in fact a lot of the good stuff won't fit on a disc. It'll be online.

Adriatic (DJ from the former Yugoslavia)
DJ Serhan (from Istanbul)
Voyi (from Budapest)
TufTribe (from Miami)
Suzy Solar (from Tampa Bay)
Fatima Hajji (from Spain)
DJ Trinity (from New York)
CosMic Ally (from Seoul)

Well, heck, I could go on and on. Point is, some listeners will like some of it, some will like none of it, and some will like all of it. But until it is heard, one can only comment out of ignorance.

As I recall, my parents didn't want to hear the Beatles, Stones, Who, Led Zep, Deep Purple, etc. because "it's not music."

My mom also. BUT, my mom does acknowledge that the people like what I play, and that the sound system is crystal clear, even tho too intense for her.

My mom does not particularly care for the dance music made today, however, she does seem to hear, and understand that I perform it, not just play it, and that I find music that is has an energy, as well as a certain sophistication, and some tunes a dark, sinnister sound that matches my personality. Some things I play sound so cool, and yet, melodic, but evil, sinnister, driving sounds. You look at me, and the music fits the visual, but also the ride! SIMON BAR SINNISTER SAYS.......................

My mother and I do not always agree on music, but one thing my mom always has said of how I play, and what I play, is that I have composition, and find things with sophisticated melodies, amidst a form of music she can't stand. Then there are always 2 or TEN tunes she asks me to record to CD for her, I manage to catch even her ears with something I have, found thru my hours of scouring the musical outlets here and abroad!

There is music out there, and now, just as it was then, RADIO is commercial drivel.

And then, some of the recordings from the techno and trance genres of music, MOST DEFINITELY DO SHOW THE VERY BEST OF WHAT JBL IS!

[Allanvh5150]

No, sorry, got to disagree here.

Now, the typical stuff heard on the radio can be a bit cheesey, or just downright lame, BUT, I find trance, stuff that has much melody, and IS music, IN EVERY SENSE!

Check out A trance tune called Sunday Morning Walk by Arney S, available at www.beatport.com. IT IS NOT NOISE! It's music, and this is why I can play the music I do, because i SEARCH for my music, thru tons of pop music ca-ca, and in general mediocre wannabe drivel, BUT, there is certainly music in every genre, and every type of music style.

You cannot judge these genres, by what you hear on the radio stations. Because what a GREAT DJ plays in a club, is so vastly different from commercial cheesey radio tunes.

There is another level, the next plateau, a HIGHER STATE OF BEING!

And some very symphonic, and orchestral sounding, well made, musical, high quality, AMAZINGLY well produced trance, techno, and house music, BUT you don't hear it on the radio, XM, or Sirius!

I listened but I found myself wondering "can I sing along to this? can I whistle along to this"? Trance is very simple chord patternss with a drum beat similar to most other tunes but it has no melody at all. I am not saying it is noise, it isnt, but for me if there is no melody line to at least whistle to it doesnt have a lot of merit. I have a BA in music and have worked as a professional musician for nearly 30 years so it is an informed decision. But hey, it was just a wind up.

[Ducatista47]

OK, I'll have to listen to more of it. But so far, It seems like a "perfect" combination of Dance Trax, DDR, Ambient and New Age. That is, the vapid worst of each. Maybe if I preferred cotton candy to vegetable soup I would like it. Please explain to me why I would be spending what time I have left on Earth listening to this instead of John Coltrane or Sun House?

It is so synthetic I am reminded of Dustin Hoffman in The Graduate being taken aside to reveal to him that the future is - Plastics! Well, they say YMMV and mine sure does.

Clark

[hjames]

There is music out there, and now, just as it was then, RADIO is commercial drivel.

Of course, it all depends on your tastes, but I beg to differ.
In the 70s around DC, we actually had real good local FM radio ... WHFS (Commercial, but "granola rock" with a heavy dose of blues, folk and such), campus radio WGTB (Georgetown U), WCVT (Univ of Towson, MD) - but yes, nowadays its all crap.

[scott fitlin]

Its not reaLLY SING ALONG, nor do I say anyone has to spend their time listening to this over Coltrane, etc!

All Im saying is that their is musical sounding stuff, even if it is synthetic, there is also CRAP, too. But there is some really good sounding music, and it's danceable to.

NOW, if one wants to DANCE?

Coltrane is great music, but Coltrane won't fill my dancefloor.

OTOH, late one night, around 3AM on a summer Saturday, running last ride, with 40 people, and I played The Beatles- Let It Be. THIS is REAL music, and good stuff, right?

On e teenager passed a comment to me, " What is this old, tired garbage "? Someone else told him it was The beatles, and that he should listen and learn, its not garbage. He was like NAH FUK DAT!

Point is, everyone hears what THEY hear. Opinion varies, we don't all think the same, TODAYS stuff isnt yesterdays stuff, and you don't HAVE TO listen to it, but, don't trash it either.

[Titanium Dome]

Maybe if I preferred cotton candy to vegetable soup I would like it. Please explain to me why I would be spending what time I have left on Earth listening to this instead of John Coltrane or Sun House?


Clark

You shouldn't. As long as you have those mental models, there's really no point. Your resistance will just create more tension for you, and who needs that, right?

"When you do what you've always done, you'll be where you've always been." YMMV.

[Krunchy]

Scott's right, you have to dig a little to find the treasure. You just have to move away from the typical outlets, like traditional music stores, radio, regular online distributors, cable music channels, etc.

Most of the good stuff won't be on a physical disc; in fact a lot of the good stuff won't fit on a disc. It'll be online.

That first sentence, for me at least, applies to almost all types of music.
I was fortunate enough to become good friends with a college buddy of mine who was and is very eccentric (he was referred to as "Jello" on campus) but who introduced me to a lot of music that I was totally unaware even existed and for that I am eternally grateful to him...good old Jello. If it wasnt for him I wouldnt be as open to new musical genres as I am today. & obviously, I wont like all of it but I am sure I'll find some stuff there that will bring me lots of musical pleasure.

On the second bold, that seems to be pretty common from what I have come across recently, most of the material was either mp3's or flac (a term I had never heard till recently. I am a little bit dissapointed by this fact as I like to have a physical tangible source but this is, unfortunately for me, the way things are, oh well!

Thanks for the list!

[Titanium Dome]

I listened but I found myself wondering "can I sing along to this? can I whistle along to this"? Trance is very simple chord patternss with a drum beat similar to most other tunes but it has no melody at all. I am not saying it is noise, it isnt, but for me if there is no melody line to at least whistle to it doesnt have a lot of merit. I have a BA in music and have worked as a professional musician for nearly 30 years so it is an informed decision. But hey, it was just a wind up.

And a nice one, too.

I have no idea what you've listened to, but let's take your informed yet closed opinion in another direction for a moment. If you were to go to iTunes, eMusic or some other site and listen to the top 100 pop downloads, how many would you be able to whistle to and sing to? Most, probably. Now, why would you want to? It meets your limited definition of music, but it's barely palatable. (To me; you might like it.)

However, through some careful discovery in the genre of pop music, you might find 100 songs that are not on the charts that not only have chord patterns, drum beats, melody, sing-ability, and whistle-ability but soul, originality, creativity, and passion as well.

Based on what represents the most commercially promoted stuff in the category, would you deny the entire category?

Some folks listen to one or two snippets from Bach or Beethoven and immediately reject an entire genre. That kind of musical narrowness is not a trait that garners the respect of people who consider themselves educated and cultured. Nonetheless, it's often the same kind of musical narrowness that defines each generation as it decries the next generation's music while desperately clinging to what it knows and likes with a similar narrow prejudice.

[scott fitlin]

That first sentence, for me at least, applies to almost all types of music.
I was fortunate enough to become good friends with a college buddy of mine who was and is very eccentric (he was referred to as "Jello" on campus) but who introduced me to a lot of music that I was totally unaware even existed and for that I am eternally grateful to him...good old Jello. If it wasnt for him I wouldnt be as open to new musical genres as I am today. & obviously, I wont like all of it but I am sure I'll find some stuff there that will bring me lots of musical pleasure.

On the second bold, that seems to be pretty common from what I have come across recently, most of the material was either mp3's or flac (a term I had never heard till recently. I am a little bit dissapointed by this fact as I like to have a physical tangible source but this is, unfortunately for me, the way things are, oh well!

Thanks for the list!

YUP!

And, even though not every track out there will be EVERYONES fav, to shut yourself down and not be open to what's new, or whats unkown to you only excludes you from finding things, or music or whatever that you might enjoy. The rest of the world goes on, finds new and exciting things to do, new and wonderful new music to listen or dance to. The onlyone who wouldn't be enjoying themselves and hearing new music would be you. I am online in the dance music sites EVERY DAY! I DON"T BUY EVERY NEW REALEASE, either! I BUY what I LIKE! And i find music that is great, and pass up music I think is crap. But, I totally agree, I would never know what is out there if I just dismissed the entire gnre because of 1 tune i didn't like.

MP3, and the entire download scene! Yeah, me too! I grew up playing records. With vinyl, you have something in your hands, to put on your turntable, album covers to look at, liner notes to read, the whole hands on requirements of playing vinyl, and I also wasn't too keen on this new VIRTUAL product format!

Till one day I really had no other choice but to use it, and once I had my computers set up, Serato, and my technics SLDZ-1200 CD turntables, and the fact that IT SOUNDS GREAT and found out HEY this IS fun! I use CD TT,s that look like the old turntables, they have platters that look just like the old TT,s, and I can use the platter to cue up, work the mix by hand, a pitch control to tempo match, Serato screen on my computer shows whats going on, library of music to scroll through, adjustments to calibrate, and correct sound. And MOST of ALL? I have TONS OF MUSIC TO PLAY, to ENTERTAIN PEOPLE, ENJOY MYSELF, and THE NEW TECHNOLOGY WORKS, AND SOUNDS GREAT! And will continue to evolve and improve, and get even better.

Bottom line, things today are different than they were in 1970, or 1980! But, things in 1980 were different than they were in 1950, or 1940, too. My parents said to me of the things I liked in `80 it wasn't like what it was when they............

But the world happened anyway! Always did, and always will.

And we certainly did have fun in `80, as my dad had in `50, and I AM having fun, and enjoying music in `08, despite that it's different than when I was 18yrs old in `80!

[scott fitlin]

And a nice one, too.

I have no idea what you've listened to, but let's take your informed yet closed opinion in another direction for a moment. If you were to go to iTunes, eMusic or some other site and listen to the top 100 pop downloads, how many would you be able to whistle to and sing to? Most, probably. Now, why would you want to? It meets your limited definition of music, but it's barely palatable. (To me; you might like it.)

However, through some careful discovery in the genre of pop music, you might find 100 songs that are not on the charts that not only have chord patterns, drum beats, melody, sing-ability, and whistle-ability but soul, originality, creativity, and passion as well.

Based on what represents the most commercially promoted stuff in the category, would you deny the entire category?

Some folks listen to one or two snippets from Bach or Beethoven and immediately reject an entire genre. That kind of musical narrowness is not a trait that garners the respect of people who consider themselves educated and cultured. Nonetheless, it's often the same kind of musical narrowness that defines each generation as it decries the next generation's music while desperately clinging to what it knows and likes with a similar narrow prejudice.

ON POINT!

And you know what I JUST HAVE TO SAY? Ti is older than I am, and just as I post about people having come into my establishment, people in my parents age group, and they have commented they don't really like this music, or like loud sound, BUT MINE is different, and my sound is clear, and even though they don't like this music when they hear it elsewhere, they LOVE it in my place! So, new music is not limited to specific age groups, only we limit ourselves.

Guys, you can find new and enjoyable music. No, you wont like every song, or track, BUT IF you don't prejudge, and dismiss based on a single experience, you can find things you enjoy!

+1 for Dome!

[Ducatista47]

You shouldn't. As long as you have those mental models, there's really no point. Your resistance will just create more tension for you, and who needs that, right?

"When you do what you've always done, you'll be where you've always been." YMMV.

Not resistance to a form, rather still seeking the good stuff. I have had no trouble through the years finding music in the New Age and Ambient bins that was more than mindless dance music. Clever at least and stimulating of something besides just my feet. Even DDR and pure dance music have their place, i.e. if you are DDR-ing or dancing. But you are talking about just listening to this music.

Sure, it is music, but since our time on Earth is limited, I personally have never understood why, given a choice, choosing something less rather than more stimulating to my lower and higher functions is a choice that makes sense. Why settle for less when I can have it all? Bear in mind that the music you are talking about is, to most ears, less noisy and strident than most of what I listen to. This is not some old fart saying "Turn that noise down, it's not music."

This is obviously a statement of my problem, but I define it in the hopes of raising the level of interaction with life for all, not just myself. I know some kids will always prefer seeing Saw III to a John Ford film, but I hope you don't blame me for trying to have a little influence on them.

By the way, far from doing what I have always done, the only reason I know about what I like and what I don't enjoy is relentless exploration and experimentation. I listen to something new almost every night. And if the first listen or two does not ring my bell, I am sure to give it a couple of more tries.

Clark

[scott fitlin]

Clark, go to www.beatport.com, when you have as bit of free time, click the genres button, the next screen shows all the various genres, click "Chill Out" and browse through this section.

This is Ambient, who knows what you may find?

Just try it, what do you got to lose? 10 minutes!

[Titanium Dome]

Not resistance to a form, rather still seeking the good stuff. I have had no trouble through the years finding music in the New Age and Ambient bins that was more than mindless dance music. Clever at least and stimulating of something besides just my feet. Even DDR and pure dance music have their place, i.e. if you are DDR-ing or dancing. But you are talking about just listening to this music.

Sure, it is music, but since our time on Earth is limited, I personally have never understood why, given a choice, choosing something less rather than more stimulating to my lower and higher functions is a choice that makes sense. Why settle for less when I can have it all? Bear in mind that the music you are talking about is, to most ears, less noisy and strident than most of what I listen to. This is not some old fart saying "Turn that noise down, it's not music."

This is obviously a statement of my problem, but I define it in the hopes of raising the level of interaction with life for all, not just myself. I know some kids will always prefer seeing Saw III to a John Ford film, but I hope you don't blame me for trying to have a little influence on them.

By the way, far from doing what I have always done, the only reason I know about what I like and what I don't enjoy is relentless exploration and experimentation. I listen to something new almost every night. And if the first listen or two does not ring my bell, I am sure to give it a couple of more tries.

Clark

Great response, Clark, and well worth reading.

You know, Coltrane has a big spot on the shelf of my music library, but some of his stuff just absolutely turns me off, and I can see if someone heard that material first, they might dismiss his whole catalog.

Likewise, I'm a huge fan of Stan Kenton, and I've collected some rare and unusual Kenton bits over the years, but he's done some things I absolutely can't stand, no matter how much I try to like them. If I had heard some of his "on the edge" stuff before I became a fan I might have never listened to the rest.

Scotty and the old man (me) obviously found a whole world of music that exists outside (and maybe in spite of) the traditional music culture. It was bred in the depths of old Amigas and Commodores and Moogs, grew up in Macs and PCs, and blew the doors off with the advent of the Internet, myriad codecs, electronic distribution, musical subculture globalization, and the self immolation of the record business.

Maybe one of the difficulties is in the actual experiences we have. I'm sure we've been to concert halls and heard the great orchestras, ensembles, choirs and soloists. We've been to the small clubs to hear the jazz players, the singers, the bands; to the stadiums to hear the big rock concerts or country artists, or pop divas; to the park to hear the blue grass players and the ethnic groups and the Pops Orchestra; to the bar for a power trio or a smooth jazz duo, etc.

What most of us haven't done is go to a real trance venue or top flight dance club. We haven't heard this music in all its uncompressed glory, DJed by a top flight musical genius who takes each song and makes it anew on the spot to fit the club, the audience, the mood, the event. Listen to those Crowns heat up as they drive those JBLs to the limit but never beyond. Smell the perfume/sweat/sex/electric ozone in the air, along with the heat, the motion, the assimilation, the liberation, the unity.

That probably has a lot to do with how I feel about it, just like the first time I saw The Who, the Grateful Dead, Andrea Bocelli, Sting, Phil Keaggy (who?), or the Cleveland Symphony.

I envy Scotty that he gets to create this at his own place.

[scott fitlin]

Great response, Clark, and well worth reading.

You know, Coltrane has a big spot on the shelf of my music library, but some of his stuff just absolutely turns me off, and I can see if someone heard that material first, they might dismiss his whole catalog.

Likewise, I'm a huge fan of Stan Kenton, and I've collected some rare and unusual Kenton bits over the years, but he's done some things I absolutely can't stand, no matter how much I try to like them. If I had heard some of his "on the edge" stuff before I became a fan I might have never listened to the rest.

Scotty and the old man (me) obviously found a whole world of music that exists outside (and maybe in spite of) the traditional music culture. It was bred in the depths of old Amigas and Commodores and Moogs, grew up in Macs and PCs, and blew the doors off with the advent of the Internet, myriad codecs, electronic distribution, musical subculture globalization, and the self immolation of the record business.

Maybe one of the difficulties is in the actual experiences we have. I'm sure we've been to concert halls and heard the great orchestras, ensembles, choirs and soloists. We've been to the small clubs to hear the jazz players, the singers, the bands; to the stadiums to hear the big rock concerts or country artists, or pop divas; to the park to hear the blue grass players and the ethnic groups and the Pops Orchestra; to the bar for a power trio or a smooth jazz duo, etc.

What most of us haven't done is go to a real trance venue or top flight dance club. We haven't heard this music in all its uncompressed glory, DJed by a top flight musical genius who takes each song and makes it anew on the spot to fit the club, the audience, the mood, the event. Listen to those Crowns heat up as they drive those JBLs to the limit but never beyond. Smell the perfume/sweat/sex/electric ozone in the air, along with the heat, the motion, the assimilation, the liberation, the unity.

That probably has a lot to do with how I feel about it, just like the first time I saw The Who, the Grateful Dead, Andrea Bocelli, Sting, Phil Keaggy (who?), or the Cleveland Symphony.

I envy Scotty that he gets to create this at his own place.

What an excellent post! You compose your words as equally well as I think you compose your sets of music. I can tell you put thought, feeling, emotion, and READING your crowd, by the way you speak. Same manner I speak in, when I speak about how I DJ, what is going on in my mind, what i try to, and do achieve. YOU DO HAVE AN OPEN INVITATION TO PLAY ON MY SYSTEM IF YOUR IN NYC, during spring or summer! I already had openly said this in another thread in the forum.

When I said OLDER THAN I AM, I meant, as in here is someone who is a bit older than myself, and is also INTO this new culture, modern technology, and new music! As many will say the new music is the mindless music of the younger generation and they can't understand it, or why anyone likes it. Simply put, I'm 46, I LOVE IT, your a bit older, not that much I don't think, SEEMS like you LOVE IT TOO! That's cool, and shows I am not alone in my thinking!

The music and the sound, well, so much goes on in a great evening, some tracks selected at a particular moment in an evening for its sleazy, sexy, pretty sound. Creating a sexually charged vibe, people start dancing and grinding close up against each other.

Other tracks for their throbbing high energy LETS DANCE feeling.

Some for their dark, deeeeep, sinnister, hypnotic and frantic SUPERCHARGED PEAK HOUR ENERGY! MAKE EM SWEAT!

Tracks chosen to play at a time the feeling seems right for the happy, but quality vocals they have, time to make people smile, be happy, and know we are having a party!

Anthem Vocals and Party Tune HITS, at right moment to create HAPPY SMILING HANDS IN THE AIR PARTY VIBE! This is the Sing -A- Long moments!

How to weave a tapestry in sound, song, and music, is the art. It IS a conversation, a dialogue if you will between myself and everyone at the party.

We journey through space and time, a trip through our emotions, feelings, a chance to see inside our minds. The musical journey around the world, for the brief time spent inside a club, on the dancefloor, the GREAT DJ tells his/her tale, a story of ALL IS WELL, EVERYONE IS HAPPY, THE WORLD IS AT PEACE, WE ARE ALL ONE, and we go home after the nights journey in a physical and mental state of well being!

MUSIC AND DANCING AT A CLUB CAN BE AND IS AN INTIMATE GATHERING WITH MYSELF AND 2500 OF MY CLOSEST FRIENDS!

The rhythm of the grooooove!