caps are they really that important

[Ian Mackenzie]

That has not been my experience. I find most DIYers love whatever they've slapped together... at first. As the new wears off they start wondering why some music doesn't sound particularly good and they start the tinkering process again... it is a cycle that repeats itself over and over. They eventually actually learn to like the sound of their system, buy a new kit or factory made system, or simply start the process over again with an entirely different approach.

As for the topic of this thread, I agree with those who have said, that since you are happy, consider yourself lucky and enjoy the music... for now at least.


Widget

Widget.

I think you are talking from your own experience here.

[Mr. Widget]

Widget.

I think you are talking from your own experience here.

Yes and no.

In my post, I was describing my experience witnessing other DIYers... my own personal experience as a DIYer has been a bit different. I have always tried to achieve the pinnacle in audio reproduction and have generally been disappointed with my systems initially and eventually after months or years of adjustments in the networks, driver changes, cabinet changes or all of the above, I may end up with a system that I am satisfied with. When that hasn't occurred, I have repurposed the drivers or sold the systems, warts and all to others who were a bit less critical.

My current system took many turns since I started it in early 2005. I made changes in cabinet construction, driver changes and crossover tweaks... after about one and half to two years of development I ended up with a system that I have enjoyed for the last two years or so unchanged.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Thankyou for the confession

That has not been my experience. I find most DIYers love whatever they've slapped together... at first. As the new wears off they start wondering why some music doesn't sound particularly good and they start the tinkering process again... it is a cycle that repeats itself over and over. They eventually actually learn to like the sound of their system, buy a new kit or factory made system, or simply start the process over again with an entirely different approach.

As for the topic of this thread, I agree with those who have said, that since you are happy, consider yourself lucky and enjoy the music... for now at least.

In my post, I was describing my experience witnessing other DIYers... my own personal experience as a DIYer has been a bit different. I have always tried to achieve the pinnacle in audio reproduction and have generally been disappointed with my systems initially and eventually after months or years of adjustments in the networks, driver changes, cabinet changes or all of the above, I may end up with a system that I am satisfied with. When that hasn't occurred, I have repurposed the drivers or sold the systems, warts and all to others who were a bit less critical.

My current system took many turns since I started it in early 2005. I made changes in cabinet construction, driver changes and crossover tweaks... after about one and half to two years of development I ended up with a system that I have enjoyed for the last two years or so unchanged.

Well I guess it depends on the sample size of the diy population that you have been observing and how you qualify diy.

My take on this criteria is you have a large portion who like making diy projects and saving some money by building or assembling it themselves.

In this instance many people by kits that have been prepared by an experienced team of designers and marketed through a retail outfits like Madisound or Goldsound in the case of JBL or from a magazine like HiFi World.

Then there are those who have a loyalty to a brand and have longed for the model they could never afford so they clone a specific design based on engineers specifications.

In these two categories you find people will get a very good result if they follow the design and as a rule the design will sound and work better than a 1st take and a diy project from the ground up. This of course on the proviso that they have the technical competence to follow the engeering specifications. From my own direct observations and the number of pms I get the majority struggle without external help in this area.

Then we have people who would like to modify or try and improve a design and bring it up to date with current components or amend it with a different type of horn or other drivers.

This is a high risk area of diy audio for those who are seeking perfection and it is often were people crash and burn.

Despite the apparent simplicity of putting a different horn type a top a 4355 or a 4345 or swapping a driver and hoping for a better subjective results this often leads to initial enthusiasm followed by disappointment.

This is because the dude does not have the technical skills required to re engineer and optimise the system nor objective feedback from a another set of ears to assist with final adjsutment of the system for correct integration of the different horn or component.

Modifications in the midrange where the ear is most sensitive require not just one set of ears but a panel of experienced listeners to evaluate performance and provide feedback to the designer.

This is perhaps a key distinction from buying a commercially engineered product from the likes of JBL and trying to work up a design or modifying a design on your own. But we still see a lot of niave and in some case smug people making drastic changes to otherwise well engineered systems that work properly or claiming they have a vastly superior design. I generally find those people wear rose colored sunglasses and are really out to impress their own egos more than anything else.

Then we have people who life ambition is to build the best loudspeaker. I draw an analogue with backyard wine makes who start out with vinager and perhaps one day end up with something drinkable. The majority of their lives is spent in the wine cellar which is propably a good thing.

Finally we have the individual or puts something together on a Saturday afternoon and calls it done.

Therefore, no one is really immune from the trials and tributations of diy loudspeakers.

[Mr. Widget]

Thankyou for the confession

Forgive me father for I have listened...


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

Forgive me father for I have listened...


Widget

Apparently............

I trust you will enjoy my sermon.

Father

[pos]

So Ian, which category do you fall in as a DIY person?

[Robh3606]

Nice Post Ian

Rob

[cooky1257]

My old dad was just as happy up to his elbows in 2-stroke and grease as he was out on the road on his old BSA Bantam-there was something wrong if there 'wasn't' a pool of oil under the bike!
People also DIY because they like it, they enjoy it, they even enjoy getting it wrong-ie it's the journey as much as the destination that's important to them.
Lots of commercial systems have their own weaknesses too, shortcomings and technical flaws but still 'work' eg the JBL 4350, the Tannoy Monitor Gold-the 'magic' doesn't turn up on any graph this being a very subjective hobby 'n all if they get 2 years satisfaction before the doubts set in so what?.
Power to the DIY'ers of this world I say and let less judgementalism and more encouragement be the order of the day.

[Hoerninger]

And then there is the one who builds something which is simply not available. (This is not very often in these days and is less speaker related.)

And then there is the one who does not have the great system design but who makes different types of gear better interoperable.
____________
Peter

[Ian Mackenzie]

For the past 5 years I've been in the diy clone category. Prior to that I built a system from scratch with a lot of help. (only because I did not have the drivers or information to build a clone). Now it looks like I'm going to be wine maker but with a lot of help from up above.

[Ian Mackenzie]

As Greg wrote me when I sort advice from JBL on the 4345...."your having too much fun".

It could be said that some of JBL's most successful consumer loudspeakers come from Greg's diy ambitions.

I agree diy is where the fun is and this is why I like assisting those who are passionate about making it themselves.


Ian

(Everything you need to know about making a 4345 is is now documented thoroughly on the forums so please do not send emails to Greg.)

[4313B]

(Everything you need to know about making a 4345 is is now documented thoroughly on the forums so please do not send emails to Greg.)

I knew that would eventually start happening and talked with him about it again just last week. He said he would simply refuse to answer any of it. For years we were able to insulate him and it worked quite well.

It could be said that some of JBL's most successful consumer loudspeakers come from Greg's diy ambitions.

Yep. I'd love to see you get some 1200FE's and some SAM1HF horns (without the 435AL and 045TI). Load them with the 435BE and 045BE. Use your 2245H's as subs.

[dino]

As Greg wrote me when I sort advice from JBL on the 4345...."your having too much fun".

It could be said that some of JBL's most successful consumer loudspeakers come from Greg's diy ambitions.

I agree diy is where the fun is and this is why I like assisting those who are passionate about making it themselves.


Ian

(Everything you need to know about making a 4345 is is now documented thoroughly on the forums so please do not send emails to Greg.)

I second that . I love the sound of jbl speakers ! I always wanted to build one big bad set of jbl speakers. my first project gene speakers which I got my idea from gold sound I made a lot of mistakes on my first project -cabinet size and port size. what my bigest mistake was I ask for help-info after I had finish my first project but on the bright side I receive alot of help and input from Ian -zilch- mr widget - rob 3606- toddlin- don mascali- boputnam- speakerdave- johnaec- mike caldwell- junior jbl- I hope I didnt forget any one !. To the people names I just call out u are the reason I beleive my current project went so well- did I say they sound great.[ research ] every thing I needed was here. So to all u guys names I call out I want to say THANK U

[dino]

I second that . I love the sound of jbl speakers ! I always wanted to build one big bad set of jbl speakers. my first project gene speakers which I got my idea from gold sound I made a lot of mistakes on my first project -cabinet size and port size. what my bigest mistake was I ask for help-info after I had finish my first project but on the bright side I receive alot of help and input from Ian -zilch- mr widget - rob 3606- toddlin- don mascali- boputnam- speakerdave- johnaec- mike caldwell- junior jbl- I hope I didnt forget any one !. To the people names I just call out u are the reason I beleive my current project went so well- did I say they sound great.[ research ] every thing I needed was here. So to all u guys names I call out I want to say THANK U

thanks

[4313B]

thanks

You're welcome. Enjoy!