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Thread: 4430 makes a good sub (was, "upgrading...)

  1. #1
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    4430 makes a good sub (was, "upgrading...)

    I'm back with my 4430's. My feedback requested for another idea.

    First, thanks to ALL for the help and feedback ("Upgrading the 4430 monitors"). I can see some great projects on the horizon for me....as soon as I get the time for cabinet building. But, I just figured out most of my summer schedule. Insane. That great project just may not happen this summer or.... time/time/time and always time. I would really enjoy it, though. Yes, I know, I need to build me some 4343b's or 4345's....and I want to!

    What about this: Use what I have now to make it work just for now, drawing on the strengths that I have.

    Temporary makeshift solution. (O.K. start to cringe). My B&W 640's just play circles around the 4430's in the mid and treble. They do not distort at high volume treble the way the 4430's do and they are just much better balanced in the treble. I know that you told me that the 4430's are junk. The 4430's do sound good down low--a lot better than the B&W's, which go below 50 Hz. but just are not very tight or accurate in the lower bass.

    Proposal: Use both. B&W crossing over to 4430's @ about 250 or 300 Hz.

    1) I already have the amps to bi-amp. I would need to procure the crossovers.

    2) Although the JBL's are supposed to be 3 db more efficient, they sound identical in efficiency as the B&W's to my ear (same stepped volume control setting , exact same source material, exact same listening postition). It's really, really, close--cannot actually hear a loudness difference. Kinda spooky, coincidental that it would come out this way.

    3) Impedance is (at least nominally) the same.

    Question 1: does this sound workable? I think it's worth the experiment.

    ________

    Crossovers. It doesn't look hard to buy a JBL 5235. It does look hard to buy the right cards.

    Question 2: Is it overly difficult to procure the right cards?

    Question 3: What frequency to crossover? 250, 300, other?

    Question 3b: rolloff at 12 or 18 db/octave? Does it matter?

    Question 4: Can the 5235 handle an unbalanced input?

    Other suggestions? Again, I'm trying to avoid cabinet building for the moment, mostly because I see a stalled out cabinet project in my near future.

    As always, Thanks!! What a great group.

    Monte
    Indianapolis

  2. #2
    Senior Member MikeM's Avatar
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    Re: 4430 makes a good sub (was, "upgrading...)

    Originally posted by Monte
    I'm back with my 4430's. My feedback requested for another idea.

    First, thanks to ALL for the help and feedback ("Upgrading the 4430 monitors"). I can see some great projects on the horizon for me....as soon as I get the time for cabinet building. But, I just figured out most of my summer schedule. Insane. That great project just may not happen this summer or.... time/time/time and always time. I would really enjoy it, though. Yes, I know, I need to build me some 4343b's or 4345's....and I want to!

    What about this: Use what I have now to make it work just for now, drawing on the strengths that I have.

    Temporary makeshift solution. (O.K. start to cringe). My B&W 640's just play circles around the 4430's in the mid and treble. They do not distort at high volume treble the way the 4430's do and they are just much better balanced in the treble. I know that you told me that the 4430's are junk. The 4430's do sound good down low--a lot better than the B&W's, which go below 50 Hz. but just are not very tight or accurate in the lower bass.

    Proposal: Use both. B&W crossing over to 4430's @ about 250 or 300 Hz.

    1) I already have the amps to bi-amp. I would need to procure the crossovers.

    2) Although the JBL's are supposed to be 3 db more efficient, they sound identical in efficiency as the B&W's to my ear (same stepped volume control setting , exact same source material, exact same listening postition). It's really, really, close--cannot actually hear a loudness difference. Kinda spooky, coincidental that it would come out this way.

    3) Impedance is (at least nominally) the same.

    Question 1: does this sound workable? I think it's worth the experiment.

    ________

    Crossovers. It doesn't look hard to buy a JBL 5235. It does look hard to buy the right cards.

    Question 2: Is it overly difficult to procure the right cards?

    Question 3: What frequency to crossover? 250, 300, other?

    Question 3b: rolloff at 12 or 18 db/octave? Does it matter?

    Question 4: Can the 5235 handle an unbalanced input?

    Other suggestions? Again, I'm trying to avoid cabinet building for the moment, mostly because I see a stalled out cabinet project in my near future.

    As always, Thanks!! What a great group.

    Monte
    Indianapolis
    Do it you are correct about the B&W. I have the 801#3. 4430/5 wont even come close.
    Give up the crossover card idea.( your not using all jbl anyway ) why not find a good adjustable 12/18 db crossover and adjust to what sounds good! 18 db will be fine ! keep in mind the 4430 only goes down to about 30hz. you should hear the 801!!
    Von Schweikert VR-8
    Canary Ref. 1 300B monoblocks. 300Bx16

  3. #3
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    I can't guarantee proper placement and definitely no EQ. I just set it up in the normal home playback position (nothing in the walls). So, the 4430 is not going to sound as good as it could.

    However, I did place the DM640 side by side, with the exact same input, volume, etc. and did an A/B test. On vocal, at full, sane listening volume (not abusive or amp clipping or anything absurd), the 4430 did reveal a little distortion at vocal peak whereas the DM 640 did not. I am playing back at a volume that is almost the same as I am used to listening to live. The source is acoustical instruments without amplification. I am a professional classical musician--I play oboe in orchestras--so 95% of my music listening is live. I play back "almost the same" volume because I would not want a playback system as loud as what we hear on stage. Would you be surprised to know that most concerts we use ear plugs at least some of the time? It can sometimes be really painful in a symphony orchestra without plugs. And some concerts, especially "pops," we use ear plugs all or almost all of the time. Anyway, I don't play back as loud. It would be similar to the level that is played back in recording studios' booth area, which I am in once or twice most months.

    Back to my A/B test, the playback was in a 16'/16'/11' sized room. Both speakers achieved the same apparent intensity to the listener but the B&W was cleaner in the highs. JBL took the bass, easily.

    I am open to suggestions.

    As always, thanks for your help. I need all I can get.

    Monte

  4. #4
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    With my 16 foot room, (the last time I did the math, trying to remember?) is good down to 34 Hz at the lowest. So, forget the really low stuff.

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