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  1. #1
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    Dias Titanium or Aluminium

    Hello Guys,

    We have currently on a french forum an open point concerning alu and ti dias. Persons with 4343 and others JBL from 43xx, consider that Ti is smother (less ttssss... tttssss...) and more natural than Alu. Here, it's the opposite.

    Do you have an idea why?

    I can understand than people from different culture could prefer different sound, but not that these persons describe the same qualities.


    In my case, i need to change 2421A dias (JBL 4430).


    Ugo

  2. #2
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Titanium diaphrams are stronger, can take more abuse in commercial use,
    but some think they can be a bit harsh for home use, unless coated with aquaplas or a similar 'treatment".
    I believe Alum dia are smoother, but being a softer metal, can stretch, fatigue and fail.
    I believe thats not usually an issue in home use.

    Quote Originally Posted by ougo View Post
    Hello Guys,

    We have currently on a french forum an open point concerning alu and ti dias.
    Persons with 4343 and others JBL from 43xx, consider that Ti is smother (less ttssss... tttssss...) and more natural than Alu. Here, it's the opposite.

    Do you have an idea why?

    I can understand than people from different culture could prefer different sound, but not that these persons describe the same qualities.


    In my case, i need to change 2421A dias (JBL 4430).


    Ugo
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Tom Brennan's Avatar
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    I think both materials sound good.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Brennan View Post
    I think both materials sound good.
    i think too ,-)

    Ugo

  5. #5
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I agree with both of you. Either one can sound really good. I think its more a how it was designed issue than the material by itself.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  6. #6
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    I agree with both of you. Either one can sound really good.
    I suppose... though everything else being equal, the Aluminum sounds cleaner and clearer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    I think its more a how it was designed issue than the material by itself.
    Implementation does matter, however that raw material is also critical. Hence Be, Mg, and Al are all inherently superior to Ti... looking at the Periodic Table we can see their relative masses.

    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    I believe Alum dia are smoother, but being a softer metal, can stretch, fatigue and fail.
    Aluminum is soft, but it is actually stiffer as well as being lighter... and that is why it is superior, but it does get brittle due to work hardening and then it can fail.


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    Senior Member timc's Avatar
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    When talking about materials. Where does the synthetic diamond, that for instance Acuton and B&W uses, fit in. I read somewhere that its breakup modes were even higher in freq, than Be.



    -Tim
    2213 + 2435HPL w/aquaplas + H9800 (Matsj edition)

  8. #8
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    however that raw material is also critical. Hence Be, Mg, and Al are all inherently superior to Ti... looking at the Periodic Table we can see their relative masses.
    Hello Widget

    Your right but I am think more along the lines of the "Titanium Sucks" school of thought or "Aluminum Sucks" for that matter. I can understand a preference for either and in that case the better material issue goes out the window at least as far as that individual is concerned. I have seen people post that they didn't like the sound of Be drivers as an example.

    I see people who switch from one to the other and then you see "there is no going back" comments. To me that's extreme as I find the differences not quite that dramatic. I have Be and Ti drivers running in the same room and I can easily compare the two. Be wins but there is no way I am going to start getting rid of my Ti drivers.

    One material may be superior but that doesn't mean you can't make a good sounding driver with the "inferior" material. The audible differences between the materials can easily be lost with bad implementation. I have yet to hear a Titanium JBL driver that I couldn't listen too all the day through. I can't say that across the board.


    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  9. #9
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames View Post
    Titanium diaphrams are stronger, can take more abuse in commercial use,
    but some think they can be a bit harsh for home use, unless coated with aquaplas or a similar 'treatment".
    I believe Alum dia are smoother, but being a softer metal, can stretch, fatigue and fail.
    I believe thats not usually an issue in home use.
    Hey, Heather,

    Have you changed your hair-do? Your Avatar looks a little different than I remember!! Take care, and God Bless!

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  10. #10
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    In any case, I look forward to your report on them.
    Hello 4313B

    Well once I get the LE-14 bases built for L250 the clones I will have a modular bass section I can drop the new top driver set-on. I have preliminary networks designed and they look good in LEAP. At the rate I am speeding along it will probably be late next year.

    Rob
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  11. #11
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Mark View Post
    Hey, Heather,

    Have you changed your hair-do? Your Avatar looks a little different than I remember!!
    Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
    Now now, behave!

    Thats our alpha male cat Teddy, protecting our L200 cabinets!
    he's named after Teddy Roosevelt - check out the 'stache (not photoshopped!)
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
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  12. #12
    Senior Member timc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    The mantra is "If it moves, coat it."

    Just don't coat it with tar.



    -Tim
    2213 + 2435HPL w/aquaplas + H9800 (Matsj edition)

  13. #13
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    Have you heard how good these thirty year old 2421 and 2441 compression drivers can sound with aquaplasing and biasing?
    Now this peaks MY curiosity, as I have always been a fan of Al diaphragms sound. I have been looking into changing over to a more current model of compression driver, and I had heard some 2446 drivers with Ti phragms this past fall, and for the first time LIKED how they sounded. I also believe it was the system they were in, and THIS particular companies engineers setup and used the system.

    Imaging and detail was VERY crisp and IN focus, the 2446 drivers on JBL flat front bi-radial horns, NO tweeter. I still found them to be a slight bit edgier, and and a smidgen more rasp compared to my AL 2441,s, but GOOD nonetheless. For sure, I still prefer a tweeter to go all the way up, rolling off the horn where where the tweeter comes in, as opposed to the horn and 2in driver going all the way up, but, that just my particular preference, overall.

    How would one get 2441J diaphragms aquaplased to audition? I would spring for the cost of 2 new D16R2441 phragms to try if I could get them! The 2441 still does a GREAT job to this day. How much is the sensitivity reduced by aquaplasing?

    I am also still investigating the NEWER neo JBL compression drivers, BUT, IF I could improve on something I already have, that still works for me, this could save me a nice amount of coin, while still garnering the benefits of an upgrade.

    I am forced to look at the bottom line to a certain extent, as 5 Crown Macro Tech 9000i amps 2 more Crown CE-4000 amps, and 8 JBL 2242 woofers, in addition to my other projects, and overhaul regimen is OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive!

    You have my attention, Mr. 4313B!
    scottyj

  14. #14
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott fitlin View Post
    How would one get 2441J diaphragms aquaplased to audition? I would spring for the cost of 2 new D16R2441 phragms to try if I could get them! The 2441 still does a GREAT job to this day. How much is the sensitivity reduced by aquaplasing?
    D16R2451SL ($198) and D8R2452SL ($200) are already Aquaplas'd titanium diaphragms...they both fit the 2440/2441/2445/2446/2447/375 drivers. I doubt spending for a more expensive aluminum D16R2441 ($272) and then applying Aquaplas would be worth the trouble and added expense.

    2425 drivers don't have the luxury of an Aquaplas'd diaphragm that I'm aware of, though I believe the consumer side did....I'm not sure.

    Rumor has it the sensitivity is decreased by about 1 dB....no biggie.
    Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
    Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgewound View Post
    I believe the consumer side did....I'm not sure.
    D8R275ND ($145)

    Thanks for the excellent post edgewound.

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