Good vs Bad Subwoofers

[Ducatista47]

If this has all been done here, just tell me and post a link or two, but here it goes.

In response to my suggestion to use a sub with all but giant cabinets flat to 30hz, Bo correctly pointed this out:

Which in my opinion, sound far less musical. They got "thump", but nothing else...

I responded with this:

I mean a really nice, musical sub, like a good Canton or a 2245H large box powered by a first class amp. I have two 2245H cores on hand, so I may get there eventually. The Cantons, like the Vento AS 850 SX, are out of my price range. I totally agree that most subs are better left in the store.

Well look at this :

The VMPS program includes Subwoofers, all passive (i.e. no builtin amplifier), all quite substantial size and weight (the "Dedicated" Sub is the baby at 38kg), all requiring no equalization to pump out bass in the teens and twenties, and all easy to add to any system via the existing main amplifier and our optional Passive Crossovers, or via the biamp route with an outboard Electronic or Passive Crossover and a separate drive amplifier. Typically, the distortion of our Subs is an order of magnitude lower than the competition. We invented the slot-loaded passive radiator in 1979. It remains a feature in all our Subs and Towers, a push-pull, high efficiency means of generating first octave bass with high input sensitivity. Look at the competition, particularly the "powered" subwoofers, and see why we point with pride to our products. The amplifiers in virtually all "powered" woofers are dreadful Class B or (even worse) Class D designs which no self-respecting audiophile would tolerate anywhere else in his system. Indeed, the high power Class D amps in some very expensive subwoofers, which we have examined and tested at length, are the worst measuring, worst performing (unable to reproduce even a good sine wave), worst sounding amplifiers we have encountered in the past 30 years. Cheap, bad amps combined with equalization (which robs the sub of dynamic range), limiters (100dB to 104dB max SPL), and high moving mass (up to two pounds in some subs) make most modern powered subwoofers little more than a joke, suitable only for reproducing sound effects.

From here http://www.vmpsaudio.com/aboutVMPS.htm

Bearing in mind advertisement hyperbole, this still sounds like a pretty accurate assessment of the products usually found in stores. Does anyone have a sub as good as it should be, beside the vintage big B series JBL's? Does the Performance Series, for instance, boast a sub that is HiFi worthy, not just for movies? And does it have high sensitivity like all good speakers should?

I am running an old home built (not in my home) 10 inch sealed box passive sub, and it sounds better to me than anything I have heard in stores, excepting those pricey Cantons. It has a half roll foam surround, very compliant.

Clark

[Titanium Dome]

HTPS400, 91dB sensitivity, 1kW class D amp, solid to 25Hz, cast frame 12" Aluminum cone driver, rubber rolled surround, 16x16x16 sealed cube, Aluminum cone feet, sold as THX Ultra sub, but I use one in my music-only Performance Series set up, and it's a wonderfully musical, adept performer.

It's a discernibly better performer than my B380, and far less boomy.

[Titanium Dome]

BTW, the best sub I ever heard is the Revel Ultima Sub30, but it costs $6k.

[Tom Brennan]

The Edgar Titan basshorn is a damned good commercial sub. A couple of pals have DIY Tom Danley style tapped horn subs and they perform VERY well.

I used to use a pair of 4648s as subs; with wall placement and 6db of boost at 30hz (yeah, I know it's a no-no to EQ vented systems below resonance) they were flat to 25hz. They were very clean and could track the dynamics of the Altec A5s they were used with.

With my Altec Nineteens and JBL CS-3115s I feel no need for subs, none at all. Yesterday when my wife went out for groceries I played "Barbie Girl" by Aqua at VERY high levels through the 3115s and the damned things thumped like billy-be-jiggers, I thought it was gonna shake the house down. Those 2226s are killers, I'd rather hear them doing 40hz than hear most other things going deeper.

[Mr. Widget]

Does anyone have a sub as good as it should be, beside the vintage big B series JBL's? Does the Performance Series, for instance, boast a sub that is HiFi worthy, not just for movies? And does it have high sensitivity like all good speakers should?

Array 1500 which uses the updated version of the JBL Sub1500 woofer? I use the JBL Sub1500 for music in one system and tuned differently for movies in another... I have no need to look further.

The Edgar Titan basshorn is a damned good commercial sub.

I have only heard it once at a friend's house... I guess it doesn't work in every room... it was one noted and not very deep.


Widget

[Robh3606]

Hello Widget

I have only heard it once at a friend's house... I guess it doesn't work in every room... it was one noted and not very deep.

Wow I am surprised. I heard one in a large room and it was really nice and tight and not one note at all. I have to agree though that if you want bass to 20Hz it won't due but for music in the room I heard it in it was really quite good. Just goes to show you how important the room is down there in the mud.

Hello Clark

Good question

If you are going to DIY from drivers you can obviously avoid much of what they are taking about. I considered 2245's but don't have the room for the boxes. I have a B380 clone running as an LFE and it kicks the crap out of the original 12" packaged subwoofer I had there. That was a one note box in comparison.

To me the LE-14's are damn hard to beat as you can easilly get to 30hz and they simply sound great. They also work in small 4 cubic ft boxes so it's easy to set up multiples if you want. I think the Le14 subs have the edge over the B380 although I really enjoy both.

Rob

[JBL 4645]

BTW, the best sub I ever heard is the Revel Ultima Sub30, but it costs $6k.

Hmmm, Impressive, most impressive.



Revel Ultima Sub 30 powered subwoofer
http://www.stereophile.com/subwoofer...el/index1.html