Crown K1 or K2?

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, All,

Scott has got me thinking about possible advantages in upgrading, or adding, another, newer, Crown amp to our setup. What are the differences, both good and bad, between the K1 and K2 Crown amps? What is a decent price for such an animal? How reliable are they, compared to the old Dc300's, and DC300A's? Thanks, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[BMWCCA]

http://crownaudio.com/pdf/legacy/136713.pdf

http://www.stereotimes.com/amp031302.shtml

K2s in good cosmetic condition seem to go for around $700±50 on Ebay. Beat up they go for a couple of hundred less. Of course K1s are less. I assume you're talking about using either for a sub amp?

For main amps, not subs, you may want to look at the PS-400 or the DC300A-II. They're potentially a lot newer than the DC300As.

http://crownaudio.com/pdf/legacy/k1073-4.pdf

[scott fitlin]

The DC-300 is a traditional Class AB design, its a simple straightforward amp, and YES, they do sound goood, IMO.

The K Series was crowns first amp with the NEW BCI Output Topologies. They offer MUCH higher power, at lower heat, hence the not needing a fan, which at the time these were introduced was unheard of for an amp of his power, as well as using LESS electricity from the wall, than a traditional amplifier.

The Power Line Four, is an enhanced DC-300A, the Power Line Series was Crowns attempt at the consumer amplifier market. They have something called " Multi Mode circuitry " which let the amps pre driver stage operate Class A for the first two to five watts, then switch to Class AB for higher power, and finally AB+B at highest power output levels. Made for the consumer markets they have RCA input connectors, so that makes em easy to use, UNLESS your running balanced lines.

There were three amps in the line,

Power Line Two ( Enhanced D-75 )

Power Line Three ( Enhanced D-150A )

Power Line Four ( Enhanced DC-300A )

They were/are nice sounding smps, I used Power line two,s on tweeters, and they just have nicer sounding top end.

I also have a Four, which Im bringing back out to A/B against the DC-300A on my compression drivers.


Now about using the K -VS- A dc 300A on your 2242, what I found with more modern higher power handling drivers on older not so high power amps -vs- newer, higher powered amps, is simply this, sound comes out of the driver with either amp, BUT, on the lower powered amp, I found the newer drivers bass note articulation to be somehwhat muddled, And they sounded OK to a POINT, and IF you played something with a VERY deep notes, or notes, or VERY demanding drum passages, the lower amp just seemed to not have enough to drive the woofer PROPERLY, even at low levels.

Now, I switch to a HIGHER powered, much more modern amplifier, and all of a sudden those muddled bass notes, MM,mmm mmm Mm, sounded like Bow, ba, ba, di da din doo da dow, I could visualize the bassisits fingers going upand down the fret board, and yet, I wasnt playing any louder than I was with the older amp. Kick drum tightened up immensely, with what MY ears tell me IS even better control than the older amplifiers had/have..

NOW, WHEN YOU do step on the gas, IT's NO CONTEST. The OLDER amp is like driving your mothers station wagaon, you are doing 60 on the highway, you step down on the pedal NOTHING appens it's got no more to give other than driving the amp into clip, you feel the station wagons soft suspension becazusae the car isn wallowing form side to side, NOT holding the road going in a PRECISE straight motion, you rock the whell gently back and forth to keep the wagon straight, and you can feel the wagon can't REALLY hold the road.

With the NEW amp, it was like stepping into a BRAND new BMW M6, your doing 80 going down the highway, step on the gas, the car moves forward with AUTHORITY, and next thing your speedometer says 100MPH, yet, this car holds the road in a PRECISE straight line, steering is RAZOR Sharp, and RESPONSIVE, and WITH ULTRA PRECISION, and your not even anywhewre near the limits,either, IT HAS MORE TO GIVE! You dont feel the car vibrating, interior or exterior, you dont feel the M6 pitching and rolling from side to side like a boat, you don't feel that KNOWING feeling to slow down because the car can lose it.

NO, The M6 puts that shit eatin grin on yerface, CAUSE this thing was DESIGNED to be driven at high speed, your totally secure, and totally confident behind the wheel of the M6.

Till the cop car lights come on behind you, BECAUSE it didnt even feel like you wer'e doing 105mPh, and you wer'e barely even out of 3rd, and thought you were still around 80mPh!

[BMWCCA]

So many automotive analogies in one day!

First let me say I respect Scott's expertise with the high-power stuff. That's why I asked if the intended use for the K-series was as sub amps. I fully intend to have my NYC daughter who loves Coney Island visit the Eldorado Auto-Skooter emporium and report back on the thumping bass, as well as the art-deco bulb-lettering signage. (That is you, isn't it Scott?)

However, the PS-series Crowns (PS-200, PS-400) were actually updated D-series amps with turn-on-delay protection, headphone/monitor output, abilityto accept balanced input adapters, and a more modern chassis design. Many say the circuitry is identical though Crown shows slightly improved power output. Regardless, they are at a minimum the equivalent to the D-series, in my estimate they are an improvement, and I've owned a D-150 since 1974, I also have two D-150A-IIs, a DC300A-II, two PS-200s, and two PS-400s. The PS amps were more expensive than the D-series and intended to replace the D-series, though that price bump actually drove more users to the D-series which "forced" Crown to continue making the DC300A-II longer than anticipated.

The PowerLine series was Crown's attempt, as Scott says, to enter the consumer market. As such they dumbed-down the amps and made them prettier, using the old D75A and the PS-200 and PS-400 as their basis. They included a media-blasted aluminum face along with the black, added additional output-monitor LED to indicate power output, but junked the ability to use balanced inputs, 1/4" input jacks, barrier-strip speaker connections, and three-prong power cords. As far as I know, the circuitry is otherwise the same as the PS-series.

Now to take issue with Scott's automotive analogy: The new M6 is an overweight luxury car with a fine, large engine. A shame they put it in a huge, fat, soft car that relies on electronic nannies just to keep the over-zealous fat-wallet owner on the road as he surpasses his ability to drive. Think of it as the MP3 of the auto world in that it gives you only the control and feedback it thinks you need to have. The electronics are your government-bailout once you get in too deep. The stripped-down '80s M3 is the real performer whose lightweight body without accessories or nannies, and short, high-revving 4-cylinder rewarded the driver by responding to capable input and assuming you knew what you were doing or you'd not have chose such a vehicle. The visceral enjoyment from driving the first M3 (and, to some extent the FIRST M6) is akin to the basic THUMP that Scott loves from his JBLs and Crowns. That new M6 is more like the McIntosh speakers from the '70s known for their "living-room" sound. Bad shocks and all. "No highs, no lows; must be Bose", and now "high-speed with no skill; must be a computer-controlled German car!" Technology has won; we don't even need a driver anymore.

I'd still take a K2 in a heart-beat. The NEW M6 I'd trade for a barn-full of fun cars.

[SMKSoundPro]

Dear Doc,

I have heard the K2 and think it is very worthy for your purpose. There a few on the bay right now with resonable buy it now prices.

I just fail to see how you can go wrong with a JBL + Crown connection.
See Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/CROWN-K2-POWER-A...QQcmdZViewItem
(This guy is also throwing in a dbx 266 limiter to put on your L300's, even!!!)

The Crown amp that I also like that was mysteriously left out of the conversation, is the PSA-2.

Or...

the M600 or Delta Omega

or...

Email Bart for a line on some Yamaha PC2002M with the meters on the front. Those would also be outstanding for $175 apiece!!!!!

I am glad to hear how much you appreciate the L300's! I do too!


Scotty K.

ps. Enough with the car analogies! If it can't haul a bigass sound rig to the gig, who gives a shit!

[BMWCCA]

There a few on the bay right now with resonable buy it now prices.

See Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/CROWN-K2-POWER-A...QQcmdZViewItem
(This guy is also throwing in a dbx 266 limiter to put on your L300's, even!!!

That one looks a little beat for the price. I'm getting the impression that Doc would like to be able to proudly show-off his gear once people get sucked in by how good it sounds!

[scott fitlin]

So many automotive analogies in one day!

First let me say I respect Scott's expertise with the high-power stuff. That's why I asked if the intended use for the K-series was as sub amps. I fully intend to have my NYC daughter who loves Coney Island visit the Eldorado Auto-Skooter emporium and report back on the thumping bass, as well as the art-deco bulb-lettering signage. (That is you, isn't it Scott?)

However, the PS-series Crowns (PS-200, PS-400) were actually updated D-series amps with turn-on-delay protection, headphone/monitor output, abilityto accept balanced input adapters, and a more modern chassis design. Many say the circuitry is identical though Crown shows slightly improved power output. Regardless, they are at a minimum the equivalent to the D-series, in my estimate they are an improvement, and I've owned a D-150 since 1974, I also have two D-150A-IIs, a DC300A-II, two PS-200s, and two PS-400s. The PS amps were more expensive than the D-series and intended to replace the D-series, though that price bump actually drove more users to the D-series which "forced" Crown to continue making the DC300A-II longer than anticipated.

The PowerLine series was Crown's attempt, as Scott says, to enter the consumer market. As such they dumbed-down the amps and made them prettier, using the old D75A and the PS-200 and PS-400 as their basis. They included a media-blasted aluminum face along with the black, added additional output-monitor LED to indicate power output, but junked the ability to use balanced inputs, 1/4" input jacks, barrier-strip speaker connections, and three-prong power cords. As far as I know, the circuitry is otherwise the same as the PS-series.

Now to take issue with Scott's automotive analogy: The new M6 is an overweight luxury car with a fine, large engine. A shame they put it in a huge, fat, soft car that relies on electronic nannies just to keep the over-zealous fat-wallet owner on the road as he surpasses his ability to drive. Think of it as the MP3 of the auto world in that it gives you only the control and feedback it thinks you need to have. The electronics are your government-bailout once you get in too deep. The stripped-down '80s M3 is the real performer whose lightweight body without accessories or nannies, and short, high-revving 4-cylinder rewarded the driver by responding to capable input and assuming you knew what you were doing or you'd not have chose such a vehicle. The visceral enjoyment from driving the first M3 (and, to some extent the FIRST M6) is akin to the basic THUMP that Scott loves from his JBLs and Crowns. That new M6 is more like the McIntosh speakers from the '70s known for their "living-room" sound. Bad shocks and all. "No highs, no lows; must be Bose", and now "high-speed with no skill; must be a computer-controlled German car!" Technology has won; we don't even need a driver anymore.

I'd still take a K2 in a heart-beat. The NEW M6 I'd trade for a barn-full of fun cars.

The ART DECO sign, Made by Artkraft Strauss IS INDEED me.

I did leave out the PSA-2, that is a great amp, also happenes to be ONE of the OLDER amps that got outperformed by some of this newer technology, AND I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE PSA-2,s, I DO, but, :dont-know

The NEW M6 may not be as BALLS TO THE WALL, lightweight, and stripped down as the original M3 from the 80,s, but, drive ikt, against a REALLY soft family van type vehicle, and the analogy works. Hey, even todays "Vette" has the " Electronic Nannies" and ISN'T a `69 Vette with a 427, but, some of todays things DO work.

Now, I mean the things I say, I MEAN SINCERELY, I always do, and I found that ONCE I took the time to get the best I can from some of this NEWER technology, WHOA!

And ya know what else? People are right, TODAYS Crowns are NOT yesterdays DC-300A,s, and stuff, but, THEY SOUND LIKE CROWNS, THEY KICK like ONLY A CROWN DOES that certain crown sound I call it, and when you take the time to get what u can from, STAND BACK KIDS! HOLY F__KIN S__T!! I will tell u vintage Crown has a certain sound to it, and in other ways NEW Crown SURPASSES old Crown too.

IT's a barn of fun cars, as U would say!

[robertbartsch]

...I'm not a expert on pro amps but have owned lots of big consumer amps over 40+ years.

The new Crown XLS amps are inexpensive, are bullet proof and kick butt. For my HT application, I disconnected the internal fans which are totally unnecessary in a home application. ...runs ice cold to the touch.

While the older vintage Crown amps are nice, they are old technology.

For the same money as a old DC300 you can buy a new XLS and have a transferrable 3 year warranty.

[BMWCCA]

I will tell u vintage Crown has a certain sound to it, and in other ways NEW Crown SURPASSES old Crown too.

But I can't afford to have my bubble burst!

Never owned a PSA-2 but I seem to see an inordinate number of them for sale as-is, needing work. Workhorses just ridden too hard for too long and put-up wet? I guess not many of them led pampered lives in living room cabinets.

For the same money as a old DC300 you can buy a new XLS and have a transferrable 3 year warranty.

The smallest XLS, the 202, generally sells for around $300 street-price and puts out 200wpc into 8ohms @ 0.5% THD. Not a bad buy for a brand-new amp. Add another hundred bucks and get one with 100 more watts. But then the last PS-400 I bought only cost me $100 and gets me 190wpc into 8 ohms @ 0.1% THD. Hmmm. I just wonder what the XLS series power output would be quoted if they used the same specs as the PS-series?

BTW, I should soon be receiving a Soundcraftsmen Pro-Power Four. Old MOSFET technology, I'm sure. But rated at 205wpc @<0.05%THD (Hirsch-Houke tested at 236wpc and at 200wpc figured THD @ 0.013%).