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Thread: Harman-Japan-A visit to Japan

  1. #1
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    Harman-Japan-A visit to Japan

    Harman-Japan-A visit to Japan


    This is a short informal thread on my recent visit to Japan where in my travel’s I came across some shops that stocked and sold the current JBL range as distributed by Harman-Japan.

    Perhaps a little background.

    For a while now I have wanted to experience the more contemporary JBL series, the new Project Everest DD66000, the Project K2 S9600SE series and the S4600.

    The common theme of all these systems is a 2 or 2 ½ way design using a large woofer and compression driver - horn assemblies featuring JBL’s most recent technologies.

    As we all know its one thing to read and view a brochure but to actual experience such systems is far more fulfilling. I am also preparing to build a diy Tad based two way system so it made sense to get some idea of what a proper two way system is about.

    A copy of the new Harman - Japan catalogue 2008/Vol.1 has been sent to 4313B.

    But as I found out there is so much more to JBL in Japan.

    They also have the LS series, the Blue baffle Studio series including 4348, 4338, 4428, 4338, 4312D, 4388, 4312D 4307, 4305, 4304, 4312M, 4308 4305 and the new TS series featuring magnesium based drivers.

    The A series and Studio L series are also sold in Japan.

    I will try and scan the brochure and attached it (text is Japanese except for model numbers)

    So what happened.

    Well on my first day (Monday 6th October 2008) after some initial sightseeing I went to an area called Akihabara otherwise known as Electric City or Gadget town and explored some shops looking for JBL’s.

    This place is just buzzing with electronics , PC’s, games, visual imaging and large department stores with sometimes 7 stories covering every category. The speciality hifi shops appeared to be in more or less one precinct like Dynamic Audio.

    But what got me was these speciality stores are narrow fronted buildings with like 7 floors in categories of AV, pure audio, American audio, European audio, Laboratory components ect.

    After a bit of window shopping I went into one store (I will find the card later) and a sales lady offered to demonstrate the Everest DD6600 system in their hi end room on the top floor.

    I was fairly open about my visit and the pitch was I could not audition them locally (a fact) which shocked the sales rep because as she explained all the Hifi shops in Akihabara carry the DD6600!!

    In a word they are big loudspeakers. They sounded great and the finish is really beautiful.

    I don’t want to make a song and dance about the why’s and where for’s of how they sounded because in a shop floor covered with like ½ dozen other large systems you cannot make a critical appraisal where positioning is often not ideal, woofers mutually couple like passive radiators and the tunes - cds they play as much as the associated equipment are unknown.

    But in this shop they were using Accuphase amps and I liked what I heard.
    I went around the corner to another shop called Analogue Audio and heard the blue baffle 4338s and they did not fail to impress in this set-up.

    At the time I felt for the lesser yen compared to the DD6600 they were my pick. With the large wide baffle they not only look great but sound impressive.

    My comments about right or wrong impressions in some retail shops held water because on my last day (Tuesday 14th October2008) I heard the 4338s back in the first shop I went to on a different floor and they sounded bass heavy and chesty.

    Steve Kim and I also heard the 4338s (on Monday evening 13th October 2008) and a bunch of other blue baffle systems in a large department store with all the boxes stacked against a wall and it was obviously not performing at its best.

    So to see people jump on the forums and say hey this was wrong or that tells me they are a little short sighted and in some ways inexperienced.

    I dont mean to offend those who want to make comments about impressions of particular systems but my point is based on several auditions in different retail environments each time my impressions were quite different. If it sounds not right then something is obviously wrong. Even with another system in proximity of the same room the woofers will react and muddy the sound of the system under audition. Shorting the rear terminals helps but the woofers will still react.
    On my last day I went back to the first shop (the sales lady was married..Lol) and heard a range of systems.

    The 4338s again, the TS 8000 series and the 4600.

    Again I imagine with placement issues (floor / wall boundary) the 4338 was the lesser favourite to the 4600.

    The 4600 sounds better than it has any right to as I think Greg Timbers was quoted as saying. The LE14-4 based woofer is brilliant and the horn has an open airy quality.

    The T8000 was also very nice and would score highly with classical music buffs.

    We had a laugh about the falling dollar and how I would place my order next time.

    Next I went back to Dynamic audio and heard the K2 S9800SE running on a pair of Pass Labs 1000.5 mono blocks.

    The rep allowed me to play one of my own cd’s on my last day (Cassandra Wilson). This was a real treat and being at least familiar with the cd it was a bit more informative.

    This system was absolutely brilliant.

    Monday evening Steve Kim and I went into Japans largest electronics shop and heard most of the smaller systems including a new model called the 4308.

    It was a hard call and again the larger 4338 sounded bass heavy due to placement and we like the 4600. The taller 4600 has the woofer raised some distance from the floor and in this case the box well out from the wall. The smaller systems like the 4305H were respectable but obviously budget & box size was a bigger consideration over performance.

    We went and looked at some other display areas with European brands like Focal, Proac and some other exotic stuff. I was quite amazed at the space given to cables and other small items. They had rows of large glass cases just for cables and power cord.

    My impression is that HiFi and JBL in particular is big business in Japan.

    Sorry for the pose..that was Steve's idea. many thanks to Steve for being my guide on Japans busy subway system.

    As it turned I became a familiar face for some of the Japanese ladies while touring
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  2. #2
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    Very nice Ian!

    Thanks for the post and photos.

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    Some more pics.

    The 9800SE system, a 4343 installed in a Jazz bar, an Array system and the Akihabara district.

    There were of course other things to see and do in Japan.
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    Okay, I have some more images.

    Ian
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    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Nice! Thanks for the report!

    Did you hear some 4348 ?
    This is the only remaining 4 way system

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    I dont recall specifically listening to that model as I was more interested in the two 1/2 way systems ..

    Steve K an I did hear the 4344Mk11 in a jazz bar and they were very nice. The 4344mk11 was the last of the older 43X 4 way series.

    Its hard to generalise but the presentation is more in your ear (presence) with 4 way style but I find them less detailed & coherent then the better crop of 2 1/2 way JBL's. The bass appears somewhat heavier with the larger studio Series and no doubt this has a lot to do with location and perhaps the way they are tuned.

    Why don't you order a pair of 4348 from Dynamic Audio if you are serious about going the 4 way route. They are only 850,000 yen.

    In the department store I was quite keen on the 4307 76,000 yen (with tweeter phase plug) and the 4318 175,000 yen (with wave guide tweeter). That is the one with the white cone woofers and the shiny mid cone and tweeter with the phase plug/small tweeter wave guide.

    All those direct radiator based blue studio series are really cute. They do however sound somewhat different to the smaller horn loaded systems like the 4350H 59,000 yen, the 4312M 72000 yen which I felt were more of a compact bookshelf speaker where space is at a premium.

    We also heard the compact 4428 for only a cool 245,00 yen. Its uses the 1200FE woofer and it was nice. But as mentioned earlier they would work better raised up on stands. I heard them on stands in another shop and they are very nice.

    In yet another shop I recall hearing the K2 S5800 1,050,000 yen (MTM using the 1200FE woofer ) with a familar CD I had. They had an open midrange and were very clean. But due to placement and perhaps associated equipment the bass was heavy. They are rear ported and perhaps this was a contributing factor to the bass (see my comments above.

    I think all these 2 1/2 systems need raising off the floor or careful placement.

    Heck, what didn't I hear in the space of a few days.

    In summary it came down to the quality of the set-up on the day but I think if you are not an rich oil baron (the DD6600 3,000,000 yen is the one for them) from the consumer Project K2 series the S9800SE 1,700,000 yen is to die for, followed closely by the 4600 for only 460,000 yen and the TS8000 420,000 yen if you have WAF issues. (Those prices are each !...as I recall)

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    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Why don't you order a pair of 4348 from Dynamic Audio if you are serious about going the 4 way route. They are only 850,000 yen.
    I am more curious than serious, that is why I am taking the DIY route

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    We also heard the compact 4428 for only a cool 245,00 yen. Its uses the 1200FE woofer and it was nice.
    same price as the LSR6332

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    Pos,

    I appreciate your enquiry and I have had a few pms about what I heard.

    I don't want to throw a cold blanket on any diy ambitions as a result of my report but perhaps a few guidlines are in order:-

    Firstly anything to do with audio is so subjective that I think it would be incorrect to use any of my above comments as a sounding board for a future diy project.

    Secondly I doubt any diy project will ever sound quite the same as a current model JBL horn based system.

    Take the 9800 horn. A number of people have made diy clone versions of this horn out of wood using the 1500AL woofer for a 2 way system but not all have proven to be satisfactory.

    Thirdly, while my comments are somewhat guarded about the environmental effects they are only my impressions and as such I recommend visiting Japan as I did to hear such devices before spending a lot of money on a diy project.

    Forthly, even JBL admit some current designs seem to just work out well while other despite marvels of engineering are not so successful.

    Historically we have the benefit of hindsight in knowing how the vintage systems perform and systems such as the 4343-4344, 4333 and others make excellent diy projects.

    The more current crop of JBL drivers are definately NOT diy user friendly or plug and play in a number of instances and unless you are technically very insightful and have access to all the original parts cloning a current system is just a dream.

    Fortunately for my own diy project I have a worked design and while I hold the opinions of the designers with the up most esteem its still quite a gamble.

    What I will say is don't write off the vintage systems in terms of sound quality based on some hot or cold air play about the current models.

    Therefore to avoid disappointment I conclude it comes down to a look and listen and then buy at a level you can afford if you want a current model JBL in your home.

    Air fares and packages to Tokyo are quite reasonable and while you are browsing the JBLs your wife or girlfriend can be spending up on your Visa card in Ginza, Tokyo's fashion district.

    May I suggest you pm Zilch as I recall he has/had possession of the drivers you want.

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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Thanks for the great trip report.

    Several times you mention a "4600" with the LE14-4-based woofer. Is that the K2 version, the S4600, a model that has intrigued me since it was first announced? Did I miss a photo of it in your post? Oh, that must be it in the row behind you in the posed shot, and a bit to your right, if you mean the S4600. Is it the S4600 mentioned here: http://www.harman-japan.co.jp/produc...ome/s4600.html

    My Googling that model shows you can purchase it from Amazon.com in Japan. So enough of JBL's excuse of availability problems in the U.S. blamed on a shortage of dealers!

    Hi-Fi Ring mentions these at $4,000/pair. Amazon.jp has them at closer to $4,000 each. Do you know which is correct? Available everywhere except in the U.S.?

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    Senior Member pos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    I appreciate your enquiry and I have had a few pms about what I heard.
    I am not sure I understand what you mean here (language barrier)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    May I suggest you pm Zilch as I recall he has/had possession of the drivers you want.
    Actually I don't really know what component I will need to buy next. I already have a lot of toys to play with.
    I am hesitating on the mid woofer to use tho.
    It will depend on the test I will carry on when my 2245 are reconed (christmas!).
    I will try two things with the drivers I have and some digital corssovers:
    - the 434X-like option: 2245H+2123H@300Hz+H9800@1000Hz
    - the GT-like option: 2245H+128H@100Hz+H9800@800Hz

    Depending on what sounds/mesures best I might then try to find some 2122H, 2251J, 251J or Synthesis 8 for the first option, or some 1200Fe, 1200H, or 2206H for the second option. Maybe a TAD 1101 would be an good compromise...

    Anyway, sorry for the OT

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Thanks for the great trip report.

    Several times you mention a "4600" with the LE14-4-based woofer. Is that the K2 version, the S4600, a model that has intrigued me since it was first announced? Did I miss a photo of it in your post? Oh, that must be it in the row behind you in the posed shot, and a bit to your right, if you mean the S4600. Is it the S4600 mentioned here: http://www.harman-japan.co.jp/produc...ome/s4600.html
    Yes its the S4600. The WAF factor and relatively low price make it attractive.

    I cannot confirm pricing. Steve K maybe able to provide more specific data.

    I did not heard the S4800 with the 1500FE woofer but I imagine it would be a ball tearer.

    Pos, I wish you well with your diy plans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    Very nice Ian!

    Thanks for the post and photos.
    Are you kidding, I have saved the best till last.

    This beautiful young lady introduced me to Kyoto.

    Her name is Kanuka and she would love to see a Koala and a Kangaroo.

    I will see what can be arranged!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Her name is Kanuka and she would love to see a Koala and a Kangaroo.

    I will see what can be arranged!
    Outstanding!

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    There's about 100 Yen to the US dollar right now, $.99 or so, so you can divide those prices by 100 and get pretty close to the dollar amount.

    And looks like the prices are indeed per speaker, the .jp website has the price in Yen / 1 in the descriptions.

    Nice account of your journey, thanks for posting it.

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    Thanks to Ian for sharing the experience with us!

    Ian,

    This is a very well written thread you posted and I enjoyed all your comments.

    I myself had been in Akihabara back 1982-84 but unfortunately I was not a "audiophile" back then, but I still appreciated the way all the electronic goods were displayed everywhere. They had air conditioners running mounted on metal frames outside on the sidewalk, TV sets, just about anything that was for sale was on display one way or another.

    Had I known back then what I know now, I would have brought back some really nice audio gear!!!

    Cheers, Ron
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