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Thread: Large format HF drivers

  1. #16
    Senior Member SMKSoundPro's Avatar
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    Moose hotdogs!!! YUM!
    One step above: "Two Tin Cans and a String!"
    Longtime Alaskan Low-Fi Guy - E=MC² ±3db

  2. #17
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    It's a damn good thing Palin is out of the area at present or you'd be grinding up moose burgers about now... nice photos!
    No thoughts on an LX5 (+HF boost) equivalent circuit? :dont-know

  3. #18
    Senior Member SMKSoundPro's Avatar
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    I am thinking of 4671

    2225 with 2425/2370 and I see 3110 xover I donot have.

    I always have 5232 with 800 cards.

    Please advise me otherwise.

    link: http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Net...%20Network.pdf
    One step above: "Two Tin Cans and a String!"
    Longtime Alaskan Low-Fi Guy - E=MC² ±3db

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    O.K., I put some effort into searching, and the only thing I found re: 31xx crossovers was this equivalent for 3110:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...84&postcount=3

    There are some clues there as to where to start, but he's subsequently also observed that a simple inductor swap (even if we know the DCR) plus L-pad does not produce a true autotransformer equivalent.

    Once a true equivalent IS generated, however, the same boost circuit might be usable with it, or an improved version developed.

    This "generic" approach is not generally favored, but a true LX5 (and LX5 plus HF boost) equivalent that anyone can build might be seen as having merit and deserving the requisite effort.

    If not, the options are clear: go active or find 3115As and recondition them....

    Footnote: I've never done much with large-format 2" drivers, but on the one occasion I ran 2450s on 2380A with 3110A (800 Hz) using HF boost, it sounded surprisingly good. Sorry, I did not measure the response, alas.
    Thanks to our all-seaching Zilch, I see this is an interesting bit of detail re: CD horn compensation. Actually, all this got me motivated to pick up a Behringer CX3400 active xover yesterday to play around with. I had a choice between the dbx or the Behringer and chose the not-well-regarded-due-to-infantile-failures Behringer mainly for the added features such as CD compensation and adjustable delay on the low freq. outputs, which the dbx did not have at the similar price point. I'll just run it continuously for the next few weeks to make sure it doesn't die on me.

    Am playing with it now along with the 4507/2226H sub boxes underneath the Quad ESL63s but will swap in the 2380/2445J 16 ohm horns when I get the Mac MC-225 tubed up again in their stead. Zilch, I agree, these do sound surprisingly good with the 3160s. My original searches at LH seemed to indicate that I shouldn't expect much.

    BTW, first thing I did was take the cover off the Behringer to inspect for possibilities of improvement. Yep, lots of extra space for a replacement power supply, which consists of your basic 7815/7915 +/- voltage regulators and what appears to be +/-21vDC voltage rails. Most everythng is surface mount on the board that houses the adjustment pots and control switches. I wonder what's involved to lay hands on the service manual - if there is one.

    Should be fun......now, let's see...what's involved in setting up a reasonable calibration setup with a laptop/Presonus Firepod audio interface and some calibration software? I'll likely use an AKG 1000 or Rode mic.

    Cheers,

    David

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    No thoughts on an LX5 (+HF boost) equivalent circuit? :dont-know
    I don't have time to get into that kind of thing anymore. Honestly? You'd do better to just come up with a new design specific to your driver set.

  6. #21
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMKSoundPro View Post
    Please advise me otherwise.
    It's the same drill. 3110A with HF boost.

    http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/The...eries/4671.pdf

    If you look at the N4671 schematic, it's 3110A with max boost hardwired.

    2370A is alledged not to require HF boost, but it's an underperformer (for Hi-fi, at least) without some compensation. Whether that's true for dance, I don't know, but JBL clearly added it for theater. You can easily build the 3110 equivalent I linked above and give them a try. Another option is to add a UHF "cluster" above the dance floor to provide "sizzle" if it's missing. I'd build that with the $9.90 PT waveguides (4) and use 2407, 2408, or the BMS equivalent nd tweeters. See JBL's Dance series design:

    http://www.jblpro.com/pub/cspels/CBT4%205-5-03.pdf

    Footnote: JBL used a similar hardwired 3110A network in 4660, initially with an 8-Ohm HF driver, but ultimately went back to 16-Ohm "J". I've posted pics in an earlier thread showing what happened. The note says "Please use D16R2425...."

    http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/The...eries/4660.pdf

    http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/The...ries/4660A.pdf

    Footnote 2: A member recently worked out a compensated network for 2370A, detailed in another thread here. I've never built it, and don't know if it's appropriate for your application, but, again, as a matter of principle, you'll want to rebuild any vintage crossovers you might use, particularly in a professional installation, so building new may be the preferred option.

    Quote Originally Posted by SMKSoundPro View Post
    I always have 5232 with 800 cards.
    For HF comp, you'll want to use the FFBREQ cards, maybe. :dont-know

    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    I don't have time to get into that kind of thing anymore. Honestly? You'd do better to just come up with a new design specific to your driver set.
    Thank you, 4313B. I believe that's where this is headed....

  7. #22
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    Thanks, folks. This is all I needed to get started on a new series of projects.

    Cheers,

    David

  8. #23
    Senior Member SMKSoundPro's Avatar
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    Thanks Mr. Zilch.

    I have been searching the web and forum for more info.

    A 3110 on the bay for $124 BIN, but not the A model.

    Also looked for JBL M553 active xover. Not too many leads there.

    I have considered a 4507 cab, filled with 2225/2226 low, 2425/2370 combo and 2405 uhf. I thought 3-way active with a m553 or dbx 234.

    Call it good enough with a couple of double 18 subs underneath.

    Does this get it done for the little dance floor?

    I am visuallizing my L200b's with a slot concept mounted to the walls around the place. Just a good three-way full range job box that would take care of just about everything the dj's could throw at it.

    Thank you!
    Scotty.
    One step above: "Two Tin Cans and a String!"
    Longtime Alaskan Low-Fi Guy - E=MC² ±3db

  9. #24
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMKSoundPro View Post
    I have considered a 4507 cab, filled with 2225/2226 low, 2425/2370 combo and 2405 uhf. I thought 3-way active with a m553 or dbx 234.
    Gotta mod the M553 to run 2405 on it three-way. The XO frequency is too low, as I recall. Oddly, it'll work 4-way, but you need a pair of them, then.

    [Check the specs to verify.... ]

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    Local cusine - yum yum!

    Yikes, I think my thread has been high-jacked!

    Anyway, I'm in Malaysia on business for a couple of weeks and it is good to see some discussion here on big HF drivers for home use.

    So is a passive crossover at 500hz too low for a set up consisting of
    2225 and 2445 drivers?

    While dining on local curried fresh fish guts and pickled minced sprimp heads, I got to thinking about bi-amping this rig. I purchased a Denon 2200 and may use it with an older Denon 3300 reciever I have lying around that has separate pre-amp "outs," power amp "ins."

    ...any opinions on this idea?

  11. #26
    Senior Member JBLRaiser's Avatar
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    Bring back the Bull Moose party....

    Quote Originally Posted by 4313B View Post
    It's a damn good thing Palin is out of the area at present or you'd be grinding up moose burgers about now... nice photos!
    the Elephants and Asses are mucking up the place.

  12. #27
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    No thoughts on an LX5 (+HF boost) equivalent circuit? :dont-know
    Just drop in a low value cap with a low value inductor like the 4430/4435 or the L200B crossover. Use a resistor to set the level. You drop it in before the attenuation used to match the compression driver too the woofer level. Wayne adds a low value capacitor with the 2370 in systems he builds using that horn. Going to need measurements of the horn and compression driver.

    http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Te...L200B%20ts.pdf


    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  13. #28
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertbartsch View Post
    Yikes, I think my thread has been high-jacked!
    Consider it a "Sidebar." The principles are the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by robertbartsch View Post
    So is a passive crossover at 500hz too low for a set up consisting of 2225 and 2445 drivers?
    No, your chosen horn must support that low frequency, though. An advantage of large-format drivers is that they will play that low competently. Some here would advise that even 500 Hz is too high for any 15" woofer, and that you still need a midbass driver.

    Quote Originally Posted by robertbartsch View Post
    I got to thinking about bi-amping this rig ... any opinions on this idea?
    I believe we said that. You still have the HF comp issue to resolve for 2-way.

  14. #29
    Senior Member vernb's Avatar
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    2350 on their way

    Well, spoke to the shipping company and my JBL 2350 horns are on their way to me from Belgium as we speak. I have the 2445 drivers (seems they measure around 12 ohm????).
    I have two 2225 to use (both 8 ohm), and a pair of 2205 (both 16 ohm) if that would work better.

    I am not sure if Zilch meant that there is already CD comp. in the good old LX5 filters? Do I actually need it with the 2445 on my 2350 horns?
    Why isn't there any CD comp. in the 4673 (3115 x-over)?

    I really would just like to build a simple 2-way x-over at 500hz with CD comp. myself (no L-pads please), but need a schematic to help me through.

    This is an interesting thread now. Thanks for all the inputs.

    ----------------

    If for some reason I shouldn't build a two-way, then I would like to use 2205 LF, 2482 MF on 2350 horns, 2426 HF on 2345 horns. and ,make a three-way .(I have all the parts, but thought that would be even harder to make x-over for??? and it really doesn't seem like anyone else has done that combination of drivers. x-over would be 300hz and 5000hz

    Vernb
    Last edited by vernb; 10-14-2008 at 12:51 PM. Reason: forgot x-over points

  15. #30
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Robertbarsch-
    Was the intended use ever expressed? (could make a nice SR or party speaker).

    ... or how large a horn can be accommodated? Not defining the horn or use, kinda
    makes speculation on crossover design, moot (moose-meat?).

    Vernb-
    2350 doesn't need CD eq... it isn't CD, although you might want to boost the treble
    or live with it rolling off w/2445. sort of wasting that 2426 on the 2345 using it above 5KHz.. ???

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