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Thread: Advice needed for RTA

  1. #1
    Member Paul D's Avatar
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    Question Advice needed for RTA

    I recently acquired some 4560 horn cabinets to use in my home system. They are loaded with TAD 1501a drivers which seem to work very well in these cabinets. For the upper end I am using a 2123, L85, and 077.
    The system has a passive network for the top end and for the bottom end I am using a JBL DSC 260 for biamping. The horns are great but seem to have a boosted midbass on certain recordings. They are crossed over at 250 hz to the 2123’s which is the lowest recommended but I still need to attenuate the midbass.
    I have been reading about RTA’s on this forum and have gained much valuable information but I’m still not sure how to proceed. Do I swap out the DSC 260 for a dbx driverack and use the autofunction to correct this
    Or should I keep the DSC 260 and use a behringer dcx-2496 in line to do the adjustments? Would it be better to use the behringer offline to do the measurements and manually adjust the DSC 260 to the desired levels or would this be too much of a pain? I know there are better units available but they are out of my budget!
    I have also played around with adjusting the DSC 260 by ear but I don’t like not being able to measure the changes.

    Any advice would be appreciated!

  2. #2
    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
    Would it be better to use the behringer offline to do the measurements and manually adjust the DSC 260 to the desired levels or would this be too much of a pain...?
    That is the approach I would use. It is not difficult. I am not a fan of anything "autocorrect".

    The DSC260 is a very powerful unit - you'll be ignoring a great deal of its functionality by using it as a stereo 2-way crossover, though. You should really get another and explore dual mono 4-ways!

    Anyway... The PEQ's will give you great ability to "tune" either the Inputs or the Outputs to get the response you desire (flat or whatever...). This will work great. You can also play around with some delay on the "Full Range" outputs (maybe 7ms...? ) which should tighten-up the coherence of the response.

  3. #3
    Member Paul D's Avatar
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    Thanks bo,

    I do eventually plan on getting another one. I'm using a 3133A crossover for the high packs. I know it wasn't designed for use with the 2123 but it works better than I expected. At one point I had an L300 type setup with the DSC 260 triamped and the combination sounded great. But you know how the story goes - had to keep addiing and tweaking things!
    I think I'm gonna buy a behringer and tweak somemore. Hopefully I will get lucky and get one that works. Even the guy at guitar center tried to stear me away from any behringer products! He said that they come back with problems more than anything else they sell.

    Here's some pics
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  4. #4
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    DCX does not include an RTA. It's a crossover, primarily.

    DEQ does. It's an EQ, primarily.

    Consider Guitar Center's customer base.

    Behringers aren't real roadworthy.

    They ARE, however, affordable and feature-packed....

  5. #5
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Hey, Paul,

    Thanks for the photos of your system. What you've done is very similar to what I plan on doing with the 4333 cabinets: 2235H in the 4333, then a 2123H - H/93-2445J - 2405 in a separate cabinet, just as you've done. What was the "donor" cabinet for your satellites? Good luck with tweaking your system, and I'll keep an eye on this thread to see how you make out. I may well be following in your footsteps, so to speak! Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

  6. #6
    Member Paul D's Avatar
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    Consider Guitar Center's customer base. Behringers aren't real roadworthy. They ARE, however, affordable and feature-packed....
    Thanks Zilch,
    I didn't think of that but it makes sense. They probably don't get many customers looking for home system components.

  7. #7
    Member Paul D's Avatar
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    What was the "donor" cabinet for your satellites?
    I actually started out with empty L300 cabinets and slowly aquired the components. I was happy with everthing until I heard the 4345's.
    I decided to add the 2123's to the mix and so the tweaking began.
    The reason I built separate cabinets is for better flexibility for tweaking.
    Now I can try different bass cabinet combos and I also think it is best to
    get the high packs as high off the ground as possible for a better sound
    stage. Try it you might like it!

    Here is an example of hanging the high end.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  8. #8
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Hello, Paul,

    WOW!! The pictured system is WAY beyond what I'll be trying here at home!! But, I do like the idea of getting the high end a little higher, elevation-wise. Part of my plans include making a pair of satellite speakers, using similar components as you have used, and putting them on speaker stands which keep them at ear level. I've been using a system like that, but one of low efficiency, for many years, and like it quite a lot. In any case, you've offered food for thought, and I really appreciate it. Thanks, very much, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

  9. #9
    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
    Even the guy at guitar center tried to stear me away from any behringer products! He said that they come back with problems more than anything else they sell.
    Now that there IS a comment!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    Consider Guitar Center's customer base.
    I don't understand that comment. The stuff sucks. GC offers it because too many will only pay too little for (seemingly..) too much and call it "feature packed".

    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    Behringers aren't real roadworthy.
    Sorry, Zilch, it ain't about "the road". Everywhere I run into these POS, installs, they are crapped out. Every offering they make fails. All of them. Name it, it fails. And before it fails, it simply works audibly and sounds bad.

    Whew. I haven't had a good Behringer bash for months. Better, now...

  10. #10
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    L100s are ALSO fun, of course, Bo.

    [Somehow yours never show up curbside, tho.... ]

  11. #11
    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch View Post
    L100s are ALSO fun, of course, Bo.

    [Somehow yours never show up curbside, tho.... ]
    Sadly, I too have confessions... My step-kids pretty much either overdrove or simply let-go much of the vintage JBL I refurbished for them. A pristine set of L100's simply vanished in a series of moves by one; L65's were roasted "by my damned roomates".

    But, happily, those experiences resulted in L166's replacing the L65's (I cannot feel bad about that!), and the youngest has protect her L50's through 5-years of continuous use. The cabinets, unfortunately, did their customary duty as candle stands ( ), but otherwise, the speakers have proven a great choice for her.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Fred Sanford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    Now that there IS a comment!

    I don't understand that comment. The stuff sucks. GC offers it because too many will only pay too little for (seemingly..) too much and call it "feature packed".

    Sorry, Zilch, it ain't about "the road". Everywhere I run into these POS, installs, they are crapped out. Every offering they make fails. All of them. Name it, it fails. And before it fails, it simply works audibly and sounds bad.

    Whew. I haven't had a good Behringer bash for months. Better, now...
    I'll back that up, a little less enthusiastically, but still really the same statement- it isn't so much the lack of "road-worthy", it's more the lack of initial quality control. Nothing I've ever used of theirs appeared to be treated badly or roughly, and nothing I've ever used of theirs worked for very long. After a while I just refused to count on them, or even take them as freebies when others tossed them out. That's saying a lot, actually .

    je

  13. #13
    Member Paul D's Avatar
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    Some people actually do like these though!http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...255536#reviews

    Maybe they will change their minds after some time passes.

  14. #14
    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
    Some people actually do like these though!.
    Oh, they surely do!

  15. #15
    Senior Member Skywave-Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    Oh, they surely do!
    "We" have been having a conversation re this over at AK. Parham and others have chimed in. Pretty interesting and ongoing.

    It starts in with RTA about here:
    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...postcount=1155

    But if you scroll back further you'll see the foam plug discussion led it off; for context.

    Edit: Larson from WTPro has just hopped on there.

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