Aftermarket Cones

[gsb001]

Hi All,
I have three pair of fixer uppers. All with aftermarket 12 LF cones. 4312A's with org 2213H baskets.

Well what do you all think? How bad is the difference in org JBL and aftermarket cones?
Thanks
Steve

[gsb001]

No options?
Help me out - I want to know what your are thinking.
SB

[grumpy]

If you're going to flip 'em, flip 'em. Divulge info based on your level of
integrity. They probably sound similar enough that the masses would
just miss the visuals ("white cones") more than notice a sound difference,
unless they were A/B'd. If you sold them to me and claimed 100% original
I'd be looking for your head on a platter

[gsb001]

thanks for the note.

They seem to sound fine. I have a pair of 4311's, I'm playing to compare.

I would not sell as org - not my style.
SB

[GordonW]

That's kind of a rigged-up hybrid.

Looks like aftermarket 128H style cones... but with the foam surrounds removed and fabric surrounds installed.

Problem with that is- the 123A/2213 cone is BELL shaped (flared, like the end of a trumpet bell), while the 128H cone is FLAT (purely cone-shaped... "straight" sides). This will make for COMPLETELY different high-frequency response and dispersion... which is bad in a 4311, L100 or such, because those 2213H/123A type woofers have to operate up to close to 2KHZ... a VERY high frequency for a 12" driver. Bet they don't measure like 4311s anymore...

I've dealt with this once- had a bar which had loads of 4311s installed, as side-fill speakers... and they wanted the black cone, but with the fabric edge (it's "stiffer" so that the DJ won't bottom out the speakers, according to their "explanation"). Tried to talk them out of it, to no avail... they weren't going to be budged. So, since "the customer is always right"... I ordered in parts, and made exactly this hybrid. I wasn't expecting much as for sound, and I wasn't wrong... there was a "hole" between 1KHz and 2KHz, from the sound of it. Didn't measure it, but that's what my ears told me...

But, the people from the bar were tickled pink... they're still using them, AFAIK. To each their own, I guess. Maybe it canceled out some of the bad karaoke singing sound...

Regards,
Gordon.

[John]

I've dealt with this once- had a bar which had loads of 4311s installed, as side-fill speakers... and they wanted the black cone, but with the fabric edge (it's "stiffer" so that the DJ won't bottom out the speakers
Gordon.

Hi Gordon Did you mention black paint as a option???

[gsb001]

Hi Gordon – thanks for your insight and comments. Very interesting. I’ll have to look at and compare the black aftermarket and org cone shapes more closely.

You could tell the shape from the pictures? I re-looked at them, and they are not very sharp. I was thinking this aftermarket was based on the org 2212 / 2213 design, including the paper surround and correct cone shape.

My best listening impression is the aftermarket ones have less mid’s when compared to the org 4311’s.

I’ve been going thru the drivers and found two 12 LF’s with rubbing cones / coils. So I ordered pair of 123A-1’s from ebay with the hope I get a good pair.

I know these are not the org set up for the 4312’s, but I feel I’m getting closer. Especially after reading your comments on the shape of the black ones and impact / requirement of 2KHZ.

Steve

[scott fitlin]

Original parts from the ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER are ALWAYS THE BEST!

I tried aftermarket compression driver diaphragms, and RAN RIGHT BACK TO JBL DIAPHRAGMS!

JBL IS JBL IS JBL!

[GordonW]

Hi Gordon Did you mention black paint as a option???

After seeing them, they wanted the "thicker, stronger" 128-type cone, compared to the "wimpy" 123A/2213-type cone (as their sound guy perceived it, I guess)... but with the fabric surround.

As I said- it was a kludge- but it was what they insisted on. And I guess it worked for them... banghead:


Regards,
Gordon.

[GordonW]

Hi Gordon – thanks for your insight and comments. Very interesting. I’ll have to look at and compare the black aftermarket and org cone shapes more closely.

You could tell the shape from the pictures? I re-looked at them, and they are not very sharp. I was thinking this aftermarket was based on the org 2212 / 2213 design, including the paper surround and correct cone shape.

My best listening impression is the aftermarket ones have less mid’s when compared to the org 4311’s.

I’ve been going thru the drivers and found two 12 LF’s with rubbing cones / coils. So I ordered pair of 123A-1’s from ebay with the hope I get a good pair.

I know these are not the org set up for the 4312’s, but I feel I’m getting closer. Especially after reading your comments on the shape of the black ones and impact / requirement of 2KHZ.

Steve

Once you've seen enough of these, you get to be able to identify them on sight. The bumpy texture of the back of the cone and the rib pattern identifies it as 128H-type cone.

And yes... less mids is the problem. These probably roll off starting at about 1.2 to 1.5KHZ, instead of being flat up to 2Khz and beyond for the original 2213 drivers.

BTW: 123A drivers should be fine. Same exact cone as the 2213. Voice coil winding is slightly shorter than the 2213 (which will only matter if you're playing the speakers VERY loud), but acoustically, they'll match the crossover fine.

Regards,
Gordon.

[gsb001]

Good to know the 123A's are a good match.
Thanks - Steve