L300 and 4333 owners?

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, Friends,

Things continue to move right along, in regards to my JBL dream system. In the next few weeks, I'll be picking up some more goodies for it, thanks to Grumpy, Todd, and Mech986!! I'm so excited, I could just about spit!!

While talking to Grumpy on the phone, I told him about my very first exposure to a good (read that "large") stereo system, back in the 1960's! My girlfriend's Dad was a doctor, and he had a wonderful Altec Lansing system, mounted behind a wall in his home. For electronics, he used that wonderful old Fisher stuff, from back when Bob Fisher was making something special. I have no idea what Altecs he had hidden behind that wall, but that system was the absolute best thing I had EVER heard at that time!! When he sold that house, and moved, he left his wonderful system with the house, and bought a new set of speakers. This system contained of a nice, new pair of JBL L300's, and once again I was completely taken by their powerful, smooth, and rich sound!!! Smaller systems simply did not sound that way, as far as I was concerned!!

It was then that I first had the idea to build some similar speakers for myself, and from that time, on, I began to gather components, when I could find them, and also afford to buy them.

Fast forward to today: my dream system is almost a reality, and I couldn't be happier about it!!! Remembering how much I liked those L300's back then, has caused me to give thought to using the old 4333 cabinets that Grumpy is offering, exactly as they were originally designed, at least for a while. I would finally have something very close to those original L300's, and that could be quite a bit of fun, even if I don't leave the cabinets in that format for the long run. I have proper components to fill the cabinets, once they are worked over a good bit, and I'm wondering how many of you might also be using a large 3-way JBL system, like the L300, or the original 4333? I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts and comments on such systems, especially if you do actually use one, or the other, right now! What do you like about it, what attracts you to it, and what, if anything, is not "right" about it?

Thanks for anything you can send my way. I'll keep you all posted as things continue to progress towards reality in the life of my dream system! Many, many thanks to one and all who have offered advice, equipment, and suggestions for my project!! Looks like I may be able to begin the work sometime in August, and I'm stoked beyond words!!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Chas]

A 4333/L300 set-up is probably the best introduction to JBL, that I can think of. As many have expressed, here previously, it just does the job - a true testament to a legacy that rings continuously throughout this forum and around the rest of world, to this day.

Enjoy!

[Doc Mark]

A 4333/L300 set-up is probably the best introduction to JBL, that I can think of. As many have expressed, here previously, it just does the job - a true testament to a legacy that rings continuously throughout this forum and around the rest of world, to this day.

Enjoy!

Evening, Chas,

Thanks for the shout back! Good to hear your thoughts, and I have to agree, 100%! I remember that my girlfriend's dad used to have a very eclectic taste in music, and I got to hear lots of different sorts of music on those L300's. He loved jazz and played everything from Miles Davis, to Dave Grusen on that system. He also played things like Aaron Copeland's "Fanfare for the Common Man", "Slaughter on 10th Avenue", and the 1812 Overture on that system, and I was, quite literally, STUNNED by the dynamic range, power, and when called for, sweet subtlety of those L300's!! It was on those speakers that I first got to hear what a bowed upright bass should really sound like!! Female voices were clean and clear, and not harsh and shrill, as they could sometimes be on many other systems I'd heard back then. To me, from that time, on, the name "JBL" meant the very best, period!! I still think that, even to this day, though it hurts my heart to see some of the crap that comes out of JBL these days! Though it may be branded "JBL", much of the stuff I see in stereo stores now days is pure junk, and can't hold a candle to the older stuff, IMHO!!! Am I prejudiced? OH, YEAH, and happily so!!!

Thanks, again, Chas, for your comments! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[scorpio]

In a similar manner but not quite the same, I started with similar components (LE15A, LE 85 and 2405 with a tweaked L-200 network) and built 'utility cabs' for them, that would be my version of a L-300 sort of speaker, the one you can see in the first pic below (with a bass I built as well). I've since modded this to include a 2450 in place of the LE-85 (the circular horns I built were designed to take both 1" and 2" drivers). I'm now using an active filter to power the bass unit, the top is filtered using a 3106 type network, charge coupled. The bass box has also been rebuilt to better specs (2nd pic). Still ugly as sin, but if I post again in about a year's time, it will look very different and certainly nicer! (job in progress!). I started with this design before really knowing or using this site, if I was to do it start on this today, I'm not sure I would go this way, I might be tempted to clone one of the official 'blue face' monitors following some of the outstanding examples on this site. I've put too much work in these cabinets to go back, at least for the moment.

The sound is rich, quite open and super dynamic, I absolutely love it. I've increased tremendously my curiosity for new music types since I got those, never bought so many records.

The less good aspects are the fact that they don't hide anything from the records, poor quality ones will sound just like that. Also, I don't get the bass extension that I'm craving for, it's well articulated, but does not go as deep as I'd like. The room is part of the issue here, and I'm currently doing some research on treatments, I'll probably do that before doing any further attempts at tweaking these.

It's been fun so far, but there is still a lot of improvement possible from this lot.

Cheers

[Doc Mark]

Morning, Scorpio,

WOW! That's a very neat system you've built! Very interesting horn, too. Our of what material did you craft it? As to your not getting as much bass extension as you'd like, do you think replacing the 2215's with a pair of 2235H's would help out in that vein? I remember talking to Mark Gander, at a NAMM show, "way back when", and seem to remember that he was of the opinion that the 2235H's were the cat's meow and had very nice bass extension. It was after talking to him, that I decided to seek out and buy a pair for myself, and those drivers are sitting down in the Hobbit Hole, getting ready to be used on my upcoming system, FINALLY! I thought that Mark was a very friendly fellow, and really appreciated his taking lots of time to answer all my questions, as a neophyte enclosure builder!

Thanks, again, for sending photos of your system, Scorpio! Very nice, indeed! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[scorpio]

Those are made from layers of MDF circles glued together and shaped by hand against a template, faired with bondo and lots of sanding, it takes time but is very easy to do.

2235's are on my radar screen but they are not easy at all to come by around here, I'll keep looking for these, or maybe for a suitable pair of TAD's if one comes along at a not too horrendous price.

[Regis]

Looks like you've got the JBL 'bug' really bad (as many of us do). You will not be disappointed in your future pair of speakers. The L-300's are very good at giving you a pounding, should you desire it. They will put out a level of sound that is unbelievable. The average listener will give up before these big beasts will.

Make sure you have a decent high-powered amplifier with good woofer damping characteristics. The vintage amps are OK and sound nice, but the newer technology makes a big difference in how tight and clean the bass is. I run a Perreaux 200P at 200 wpc and it works well. The MOSFET amps (IMHO) are warm sounding and perform nicely.

[JohanR]

A 4333/L300 set-up is probably the best introduction to JBL, that I can think of.

That was the first JBL's I ever heard, ca 1975! There had opened a "proper" HiFi store in my little hometown of Västervik in Sweden. They had a pair of L300's.

Been my dream since then...

(Have an LP12 to, Chas)

[Rolf]

That was the first JBL's I ever heard, ca 1975! There had opened a "proper" HiFi store in my little hometown of Västervik in Sweden. They had a pair of L300's.

Been my dream since then...

(Have an LP12 to, Chas)

A friendly advice: Go for the 4-ways.

[majick47]

Doc Mark sounds like your close to fulfilling your dream. If you go with Grumpys 4333 cabinets you will have made an excellent decision. No doubt the L300 cabinet is one of kind design that's a modern classic, my feeling is the 4333 cabinet has more flexibility in placement and also looks terrific. To be honest I could of been very satisfied with 4333 in walnut instead of L300. As another member commented the associated electronics should be the equal of the L300/4333. Everyone has their preferences in electronics, tube/ss/mfg, my choice was vintage Threshold amp/preamp (S500 seres II/Fet9). The Fet9 preamp might go into my 4301b second system replaced by an older Threshold SL10 preamp. There are plenty of high quality vintage components which would be excellent choices and are a lot more affordable compared to new components.

[Doc Mark]

Doc Mark sounds like your close to fulfilling your dream. If you go with Grumpys 4333 cabinets you will have made an excellent decision. No doubt the L300 cabinet is one of kind design that's a modern classic, my feeling is the 4333 cabinet has more flexibility in placement and also looks terrific. To be honest I could of been very satisfied with 4333 in walnut instead of L300. As another member commented the associated electronics should be the equal of the L300/4333. Everyone has their preferences in electronics, tube/ss/mfg, my choice was vintage Threshold amp/preamp (S500 seres II/Fet9). The Fet9 preamp might go into my 4301b second system replaced by an older Threshold SL10 preamp. There are plenty of high quality vintage components which would be excellent choices and are a lot more affordable compared to new components.

Hello, Majick47,

Thank you, very much, for your kind post, and for your excellent comments and suggestions! Now that I'm back home from our latest out of town gig, I'm all ready to begin gathering components, including the 4333 cabinets that Grumpy is so kindly sending my way! I'm going to be buying some JBL drivers from Todd, and some 10" midbass JBLs from Bart, and once those things are all here on the mountain, the work can begin.

I plan on following the path of least resistance, at first, and will work on the 4333 cabinets to get them ready for loading. Once they are ready to go, then I will load them with my components, and use them as a 3-way system, to see how I like that. I have a feeling I'm going to be stunned by the detail, dynamic range, and sweetness of this system!!! I'm going to bi-amp the 2235H's and the compression drivers at 1,200 HZ, and for the 2405, I plan on cobbling up a passive crossover, at around 9,000-10,000 HZ, until I can electronically cross that over, too. In the past, I've hooked up whatever component I am building a crossover for, and run a signal through it with my HP generator, after the thing has been put through a network I made (got the idea from a David Weems book) to stabilize the signal. Then, I measure the impedence of each driver, at the point I wish to cross it over, and make my crossovers using that information. I have used Mylar or Polypropylene caps in the past, but will read up on what's been happening since I last wound an inductor and soldered a cap!!! It's been many, many years since then, and I'm sure that much has taken place to upgrade what I used to make. But, "back then", I liked the sweetness of the crossovers I made, compared to most of the junk that was OEM at that time, FWIW. Please don't take that as bragging, as I readily and happily admit to being a rank amateur at this stuff. I just like messing with it, even though I don't know beans about much of the technical stuff, and will never be an engineer, or professional tech.

Later, after I've enjoyed them as a 3-way system, I will most certainly still experiment with using the 4333's as bass boxes, and then add a separate satellite cabinet on top of each of them, containing the 2123's, compression drivers with horns and lenses, and 2405 slot tweeters. Eventually, I'm hoping to electronically crossover all components, and I now have three Crown amps (two DC-300A's, and one old DC300) plus our two Harman/Kardon 870's, and our H/K AVR20 receiver. That should give me more than enough power, especially if I use each DC-300A as a mono amp, one per 2235H. I may still seek out some smaller amps for the compression drivers and slot tweeters. We'll see how it all turns out.

In any case, I'm super excited, and can hardly wait to get everything in my hands and begin the actual work!! I will post photos of each step, just for grins. Though I know that this system will be "old hat" for many of you, and that newer, more modern systems have replaced many of the old ones that some of us Old Guys grew up loving, and I know that my system will not be as lovely as many I've seen here, I'm going to be as happy as a pig in "you know what" to finally get this system up and running!!!!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[majick47]

As I said the 4333 cabinets will give you a lot more flexability in placement than the L300 which are relagated to the floor with the possibility of raising the cabinets only a few inches, maybe four at best. In some ways your project has similarities with H James L200 project. I'v tried a number of preamps/amps and the preamp is probably the component that has the most impact on the sonic signiture. Some of the older highend preamps with updateing of components (caps etc) would be a lot of bang for the buck. Keep us updated as to your progress.

[Doc Mark]

Hi, Majick47,

Thanks, again! Tomorrow is the big day, when Sweet Bride and I get to drive down the mountain and meet up with Grumpy, Todd, and Mech986! I'm very much looking forward to this meeting, and it will be great to meet some of my JBL Brothers from So. Cal, and to share some food, fun, and JBL talk with them! I'm also excited about finally picking up some of the last needed goodies to make my project a reality! I will most certainly keep you posted as to my progress on this system, and as time passes, will also check out different amplifier and preamplifier possibilities. Right now, I'm sticking with what we already own, as my discretionary funds are rather thin at this time. So, that kind of experimentation will have to wait it's turn. But, this is most certainly fun and I look forward to moving along towards getting the initial 4333 system setup and in use! Thanks, again, for your support and enthusiasm for my project, Sir! Much appreciated! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[gsb001]

Doc Mark - can you post pictures?
SB

[Doc Mark]

Hi, SB,

I'll certainly take photos of the progress of this project, and then will try to post them here. So far, I've not tried that task, but would like to share the project with my like-minded friends here at LH. Thanks for asking, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish.
Doc