How loud do you like it?

[boputnam]

...you are tricked into thinking the system isn't running as load as it really is.

Uh, yup.

It used to be headroom was the limiting factor, but that is no longer the case. It is ever-more important that we know where we are gain-wise, because the systems can easily beyond where we should. That is real headroom and a testament to the ever-evolving technologies at all points in the signal path. Ever cleaner, with lower power consumption, and hopefully, better.

[richluvsound]

hi Folks,

loud enough to be able to dry my cloths by holding them in front of the ports.
just kidding ! The 45's do like to play loud now and then. After all , they aint near field monitors. 80 - 90 db for me . Anything, more and the room comes alive.

Rich

[Andyoz]

Rich...you're alive?!?!!?

Do you fancy doing up some 4315's for your smaller place? http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=21927

[richluvsound]

Andy,

i'll nab'em if the stay under £200 !

rich

[macaroonie]

You have all the luck down there in the smoke. They are worth way more than £200 but you know that. Super mid size speaker for the bedroom , oh I forgot, you have my 4333's in there.
I was wondering where you had disappeared to ...... I bet a woman is involved hmmmmm ?

[richluvsound]

Hi Mac,

i don't have tons of cash at the moment . I'm thinking rears for HT


BTW the 4333's now speak Russian !

Women is a banned word and concept !

Rich

[Guido]

Hey Richard!

Good to have you back here

[merlin]

Really

[Guido]

Really

I don't understand this question.
If it should be funny, announce it so I can laugh.

If it shouldn't be funny

[merlin]

I find it funny Guido. You may not.

[Mr. Widget]

After all , they aint near field monitors. 80 - 90 db for me . Anything, more and the room comes alive.

I've noticed this sort of phenomenon myself... meaning that in rooms that are more live, at a certain SPL the room seems to take over.

Andy, can you or one of the other acoustic types here explain this? Why would SPL affect the apparent influence of reverberation?


Widget

[Andyoz]

I don't really think there is a technical explanation for it!

The direct to reverberant ratio should essentially stay the same for any given room + speaker arrangement irrespective of SPL. For example, if you're getting 3dB more reflected sound than direct at 80dB, then the same ratio applies at 100dB. If the speakers dispersion pattern changes with SPL, then that may throw things out a bit.

I think in highly reverberant rooms it more of a case of the listener suddenly reaching an SPL level where they think... "there's loads of reflected energy hitting me here and I don't like it". Another thing to remember is that in "harsh" sounding rooms, the reflected energy is likely to have a severely distorted frequency spectrum compared to the sweet sounds coming directly from the speakers. Your ear will apply a loudness "penalty" too that harsh reflected energy. So as the SPL levels of the direct and reverb increase, the reverb level may well sound like it is getting louder compared to the direct level. If you could isolate each source and actually measure it, the relative levels should still be the same at low and high SPL's (if that makes sense).

The ear/brain thing is weird. You only have to Google "Hass effect" to realise how much processing your brain is doing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haas_effect

Another explanation is that Rich is getting on a bit now and his ears are getting a wee bit sensitive!

[cooky1257]

Could it be down to reverberation? At lower levels the reflected sounds will decay till below a certain noise floor ie below audibilty but as you pump energy at ever higher levels this reverberation becomes reinforced and more audible and annoying?

[boputnam]

I've noticed this sort of phenomenon myself... meaning that in rooms that are more live, at a certain SPL the room seems to take over.

It's all about energy.

I don't really think there is a technical explanation for it!

Ah, but there is - and you give it, here...

The direct to reverberant ratio should essentially stay the same for any given room + speaker arrangement irrespective of SPL. For example, if you're getting 3dB more reflected sound than direct at 80dB, then the same ratio applies at 100dB.

I've noticed in some reverberant venues that too soft is as bad as too loud - too soft and the reverberations are like a badly timed delay unit; too loud and it's an overwhelming cacophony. "Just loud enough" is tough to establish and hard to sustain, but it can make for a tolerable show.

[Andyoz]

Could it be down to reverberation? At lower levels the reflected sounds will decay till below a certain noise floor ie below audibilty but as you pump energy at ever higher levels this reverberation becomes reinforced and more audible and annoying?

Cooky, I like your style man but....

In reality, with a time varying signal like music you never get to hear the full 60dB decay of a full reverb time. Your ear is more attuned to the Early Decay Time (EDT). This is the rate "slope" over the first 10dB of the decay. With music, think of it as a "running reverberance" with each impulse of the music signal quickly masking what has come before. The EDT is just as (or even more) imprtant than the classic reverb time measurement.

So you really only get to hear the first 10-15dB of decay. Even at a low level SPL levels of say 70dBA, you only get to really hear the part of the decay down to 55-60dBA bfore it gets swamped by a new part of music signal. These levels are well above any noise floor though.