How loud do you like it?

[Mr. Widget]

I recently ran across this statement posted here on a thread:

1. Always wanted L300s, for the sound

3. I like my music loud, when I have the opportunity to listen that way

It got me thinking... how loud is loud and how many of the larger horn speaker lovers among us play their systems at loud levels?

I can tell you that I regularly topped 110dB and peaked at 127dB with the system I had in my youth. (Four large JBLs and ~200watts per cabinet) These days most of my listening is at <95dB but occasionally I'll hit 105 or so for a few minutes before turning it down...

My current system is probably capable of peaks in the 115-120db range, but I have never pushed it. A friend with the same speakers, a larger room and bigger amps has pushed his and says that he was surprised at how effortless it sounded... but then he used to play the drums.

So dust off that Radio Shack meter, or buy one if you don't have one, and let us know how loud you listen to music when you air it out.


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

I think loudness is a fairly broad statement.

A true broad band system than can hold up full power down to say 30 hertz will always sound bigger and not necessarily louder.

I equate loud with a distorted system that is loud because it goes neither loud nor high cleanly. Loud is often not dynamic but compressed.

Conservatavely I at one time used 1300 watts biamped on 4343.

As they say it taskes cubic inches in terms of amp power.

It also depend on the reverberant field of the room.

Ian

[Hoerninger]

One observation but no Radio Shack meter:

Once I tested a high efficiency full horn system. I wanted it VERY loud. It was breath taking and shaking the ground. But the sound was clear. When the amp started clipping it became subjective loud. (Yes I wanted and "needed" this experience.)
When I drove home I had no ringing in my ear but I was glad about the (relative) silence.

At home I usually listen at moderate levels.
(And I have made the experience bad speakers want it louder.)
___________
Peter

[Rolf]

I will search for my meter.

[Jan Daugaard]

I once touched upon this topic:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...read.php?t=439

[Guido]

I hardly use more than 1 Watt which means around 96dB with my various systems.

I confess that sometimes I hit 110 dB levels but not for longer than 15-30 minutes.

Tonight I annonced a sound party I think we will hit the 115 to 120s when the time is right

[yggdrasil]

These days my normal listening levels are down to around 95dB....

I used to play much louder a few (or maybe not so few) years ago, but as the system quality gets better and my ears get older I prefer a little more moderate levels.

Another reason for turning the volume down a bit is that today my systems are more dynamic, with more headroom, so when the loudest passages comes they still get very high.

[BMWCCA]

The cleaner the source material, the louder I can play it. I'll have to borrow a meter but I know Steely Dan will get louder play than, say, John Mayer. I never play into distorted range and because of that I've never lost a tweeter.

Loudness itself is a relative term. My old Macs and a couple of my Soundcraftsmen pre-amps have actual loudness controls which, of course, attempt to compensate and adjust relative levels across the spectrum in accordance with the Fletcher-Munson curve. But when I said "loud", I meant concert level, sometimes even outside. If you've never wanted to hear Grateful Dead's "Dark Star" outside, at night, in the shadow of the Blue Ridge Mountains, under the most incredible canopy of stars you can imagine, then you probably weren't alive in the USA in the late 60's.

Loud, to me, can often be nothing more than replicating the actual sound level of the original performance. Whether it's acoustic or amplified, orchestral or rock band, I want my system to be capable of reproducing the original performance, when the occasion may arise to be able to enjoy it. And that includes "volume", "loudness", "sound pressure" or whatever you want to use as reference. We used to call that "Fidelity" and aspire to that being "High".

[Doc Mark]

Greetings, All,

"Loud", huh? Humm...... Well, I used to listen to my music loud all the time, no matter what I was playing. Now, however, I've toned down my volume needs, for the most part, as I've damaged my hearing, partly from my former wanton use of volume in playing music, partly from shooting too many guns without hearing protection as a kid, and partly from my years as a Tank Platoon Leader in the CA National Guard!

That having been said, however, I yearn for a system that is fully capable of reproducing whatever is fed into it, with dynamic range, authority, and accuracy. I want tight and well defined bass and drums, and when the urge moves me, I want to hear them fairly loudly. I will have to drag out my old RS meter and do some measuring, once my new system is fully up and running, just for grins. Oh, and when there are cannons in the sound tracks of movies we watch, I want them to SOUND like cannons, and not the wimpy excuse for cannons that you usually hear from stereo speakers!!

The other compromise that I have to make, and we do this willingly, is that we live in a small mountain town, where sound levels carry far and wide. Because we love living up in the quiet, we happily tone down our own noise making, including the sound levels of the stereo system. However, when the urge strikes, and I'm willing to close up to keep more of the sound pressure inside our home, I want the ability to do so! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Mr. Widget]

I will search for my meter.

Yes please do!

I will have to drag out my old RS meter and do some measuring, once my new system is fully up and running, just for grins.

I'd love to see the results.

I'd really love to see a bunch of posts of people's actual listening levels... it might make an interesting point cloud.

Currently we have three data points. Johnny's, Guido's and mine and it would seem we are all listening at around 95dB. Which while certainly not "concert level", is actually fairly loud.


Widget

[Mannermusic]

I once touched upon this topic:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...read.php?t=439

Jan,

Just read your post above - great insight re symphonic performance sound levels! Little wonder professional musicians wear ear plugs - particularly the ones in the row in front of the brass section!

My "baseline" is growing up listening to my dad teaching lessons in the adjacent room and subsequent life long hobby as a player in community groups, etc. So, I basically try to emulate that experience with the sound levels when I listen at home. I just picked up my new Radio Shack meter (its all Widget's fault) and found my results are quite similar to your measurements in the auditorium. A normal, big full sound level of jazz or symphonic falls in the range of 80 - 85. A big band shout is about 90 db, and a full symphonic tutti (The Ride of Koschei the Deathless, Bernard Rogers) bounced off 97. Now, this a big, high efficiency, 4-way rig with horn, etc. requiring only a watt or two to produce the levels above . . . . but the thing that limits the listening level is room acoustics. Mike

[Doc Mark]

Hi, Grumpy, and all,

Well, you peaked my curiosity, so I got out my old RS meter, mounted it on a tripod, and set it sideways in my regular listening position. Then, I played one of my favorite tracks from the Checkfield CD, "Water, Wind, and Stone", which is a very neat number called, "Africa". Lots of good percussion and a very rhythmic, African-influenced bass and drum lines. I like to crank it a little when listening to this track, and will sometimes repeat it several times over before being "satisfied"!

With the meter set on "C" weighting, and in "fast" mode, the average db's were in the 84-86 range, with peaks of 94-96db's! I was surprised that it was actually that loud! Sounds good to me, especially with music that has some bass and drums featured! Now, I am REALLY wondering how my 4333's will sound in the same room as we've been listening to those old Dynaco A35's and my cobbled together subwoofers! WOW!! I know I'll be stoked! See you tomorrow, Grumpy!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. If my 4408's were both healthy, I'd have used and measured them, rather than the Dynaco A35's. But, after one woofer began to go South, we've been enjoying the very musical sound of those old Dynacos, so they got the nod. Don't know where we'll use them when the 4333's are up and running, however!! Guess we'll have to use them in the bedroom, or in some other place in the house. In truth, they are just too nice-sounding to dump.

[grumpy]

Hey Mark, See you all tomorrow.

Listening levels? 85-ish with peaks in the 90's (or less) is about where I'm comfortable
most of the time.

There -are- special occasions (and source material) now & then where the levels
get a bit higher , but 4313b's admonition about levels is worth paying attention to,
especially as with many pro or studio systems, you don't really get a warning about
how high listening levels can go without producing more 'normal' loudness-distortion
artifacts . "Still sounds good and clean" isn't a reliable indicator.

Sorry for the repeat/lecture. Don't stare at the sun either.

-grumpy

[Baron030]

In a way there is no real exact correlation between SPL and the perception of what is loud. The perception of loudness really comes down to how many of our 20,000 hair-like nerve cells within the cochlea (the inner ear) are stimulated. Sounds that have a large number of harmonics will be perceived as being louder because of the larger number of nerve cells being stimulated. So, for example, cymbals will sound louder then horns because of the extra harmonics, assuming that both are instruments are being played at equal SPL levels.

And it would also explanation why an amplifier pushed into clipping sounds so much louder then a much larger amplifier still reproducing a clean signal. The distortion adds harmonics, which stimulate more nerve cells. But, the reality is that the larger amplifier achieves a higher actual SPL and it's just not perceived as being louder.

With distortion adding harmonics and stimulating so many more nerve endings.
It kind of explains why distortion is so fatiguing to our ears.
It's really hard work for our nerve cells to be processing that much stimulus.

Personally, I listen to my new quad amped 15" 4-way at about the same level of loudness as my old 030 system.
But, since this new system has so much less distortion, I know that the actual SPL must be a lot higher, particularly during any loud transients.

Considering the specs of "Everest DD66000" have at least a 10 fold reduction of distortion over my current system, I would have to wager that the "Everest DD66000" would have to reach some extremely high SPL levels before it could be considered "Loud".

Baron030

[JBobL]

Been meaning to get an SPL meter. Have the same AVR for 4 years so There are only 3 volume settings that I use depending on mood. If a setting doesn't produce the expected volume then I know it's time to blow my nose or wash the ears. I should pay better attention to personal hygene I suppose ha ha.
As long as the neighbors dogs can't be heard it's loud enough for me.