Yeah and run it on the pc for some screen captures A & B. Have a nice time out of town.Originally Posted by jcrobso
Yeah and run it on the pc for some screen captures A & B. Have a nice time out of town.
On the ground and then sounds as (pit a patter) not from above even though its falling though free space and then lands upon a roof of car while inside it should mealy sound on the overheard surrounds?
If stepping outside of the car the ear will hear a different sense of space as the sound is now partly heard on the overheard and now on the below surround channels in uniform coverage like that inside the car.
It doesn’t sound on the common sidewall surrounds as it has for the past several decades? With the new advances of Dolby 16 channels the layout of the channels should be carefully thought out about where ambiance or hard hitting edge sound should be placed that will make the sound field even more exotic or even threatening?
Now while listening in my, living-room to just the sound of the keys being pressed on the keyboard and the whirring sound of the fan below my left ear partly reflected heard as half on my right ear while keys are sounded in front of me.
Also I can hear traffic to my right side coming from the widow at near to the same height level of the window.
So that like 2 different dimensions of space I’m hearing very basic everyday sounds. Now I might hear sound on my left ear from the common hallway a muffled sound of door in the distance. That’s a very board range of sounds.
Now since it’s not raining at the time, (but often when it comes down hard) it’s heard from above overheard within the attic over my living room and depending on wind and such where rain can be blown diagonally against the window that would mean there are several directions my, ears brain, is telling me where the rain is?
Now take outside again its raining? Now you could be standing in conservatory with the doors open and hearing part of the rain sounding relevantly in sound field that would say LCR as well as its landing on the ground or different surfaces of the ground.
Might be grass a few feet forwards and the patio and table standing outside so there are many obstacles where rain where laws of physics says it will sound?
Over the years sound of rain in the movies has been put to some degree of realistic use but often it sounds like white noise a kind of crispy frying sound spitting and so on around, around in surround.
Its not how I hear it in the real world?
Where is the first rain drop heard in town or city? The rooftops high above! Or the tallest branch leaf on tree in forest?
Well I hope this diagram won’t have have anyone calling for the paramedics!
Its feasible for original 70mm classics to exist on Bluray and even DVD might need a Y lead patched on the LFE.1 with full spectrum monaural surround encoded on to the DVD unless it’s dts-ES encoded then where it will have spare channel.
All that is needed with the die hard fans is simple re-plugging in matter of seconds by swapping around the RCA phone leads.
If dts CD-rom can do it for 70mm and with the space or channels provided on Bluray with its maximum 7.1 it should be real easy it’s the studios that have to prove it to us. I’m feed up at seeing classic mixes condensed down to something they weren’t.
I would allow some poetic licence for .1 channel
Just a random thought of surrounding things swirling around in my head...
I think you need…below LCR middle LCR and top LCR discrete! So that’s just 9 channels so far.
For the surrounds it should be split-up into nine x9 discrete channels, below front surround, middle surround and back surround that is placed a few feet or so from the back wall against the sidewall.
This should be repeated for top sidewall surround middle sidewall surround and below sidewall surround.
So that’s just a whooping total of 18 channels for the sidewall surrounds to place sound images in the correct location as it would appear off screen.
For the back surround again 9channel discrete of top centre back surround, middle centre back surround and below centre back surround.
Now we need top or overhead surround! I think a three x3 channel discrete is so choice.
The overhead should be made into cluster to make up one solid array of left height surround middle and right to reduce the directional middle to high tones since lower tones will be defused. Walk into a large supermarket and listen to the overhead PA sound system that is superseded some 15 meters up in most stores. You’ll hear some of the lower tones defused and when standing directly underneath it, only then do you hear the middle to high tones.
For the below bottom surround well that’s a really complex one! Since we are seated within just 3 feet at best with are ears just 3 feet from the floor we’d need a really complex below surround as I can hear the difference myself and its complex. I’d say we’d need at least (trail and error) at least 8 channels at the bare minimum for the home.
So that’s mind boggling 53 channels
Tomlinson Holman’s sound system can only do 10 basic primary directional channels and two discrete low frequency channels or are they playing the same signal twice like in the original 70mm DOLBY STEREO “baby boom” of 1977.
DOLBY can do 16channels but hasn’t been implemented as of yet. What are they waiting for? If they can do 16channels and how they should be arrange is bigger question on (us) the paying consumer.
If the time is now then the time is now get on with it and start producing new film mixes using the 16 channels and leave the classic films alone in there original form as that is how history records it.
The basics for the original was ether monaural stereo 35mm four-track 70mm six-track dts70mm / CDS 6channels / dts 6.1-ES cinema / Dolby SR-D 6channels with Dolby matrix- EX/ SDDS 6 to 8channels and now DOLBY 7.1 sigh sounds like SDDS8 doing a reverse?
Most if not all classic 70mm releases are being vandalized for bluray release yes I said vandalized beyond repair because once we have it you can’t undo it for the home. These selfish bastards are so tight ass they’d rather give what the younger kiddies don’t have a f&cking clue about is 7.1 and they think its f&cking art.
The 16channels should be arrange to also complement the original 70mm releases and keeping it in with the times, otherwise what is the fucking point of Bluray with its total 16 channel delivery?
Okay this is how I feel it should be arranged in.
Five-screen discrete, that’s five discrete channels to keep it in with 70mm releases and the odd SDDS8channel release.
Sidewall two discrete surrounds for each sidewall surround to move sound images along the wall rather than having a sound fading in and out on one fixed location to cerate the illusion of plane or car helicopter or warp speed enterprise flyby, so sound can now move from forward most sidewall surround to the next one and then over to the rear back surrounds or wherever?
For the rear surrounds two basic stereo left and right.
For above overhead surround two basic stereo surrounds made up in large arrays as you can not have a sweet spot in must cover uniformly otherwise what’s the point in having dead spots or gaps in sound?
For the blow yes below bottom surround two basic stereo channels made into a large solid array and yet I feel two just isn’t enough for below surround.
And last but not least the LFE.1.
That’s 16DOLBY channels to make you have wet delightful f%cking dreams for the entire year!
One other thing that was on my mind was when we step outside of the room we still hear the sound in kinder of monaural way because we are not within the room with arrays of speakers surrounding the seating area.
We might hear some kinder shift like muffled sound moving from left to right of wall on the opposite side, but essentially it sounds like dull like muffled monaural sound.
While using the vacuum cleaner to vacuum around the living room I was listening to the sound where it was mostly coming from was below, where the motor is housed in the casing. The tone varied in pitch as it got near to the sidewalls and slight open around the middle of the room. Loudness only changed a little bit small subtleties that make up the whole sound.
When packing the vacuum cleaner up, unplugging the plug from the mains socket as I bend down, pull the plug out there’s a ping sound of the springs inside the mains box, that sounds below from the POV angle I was look from.
Then wound the mains power cord up around the Dyson the sound moved from below to above from the crouched down angle position I was in.
If this was seen from someone standing behind me, there have totally different prospective of the sound.
http://www.ambisonic.net/
Quote from the ambisonicn site.
Height in the LFE channel
One method is to add height information to the LFE channel. This is simple and obvious, and the only "decoding" required would be a high-pass filter (operating at speaker level if you wish) to drive the overhead speaker (all deep bass information, including such sounds from above, would issue from the sub-woofer: low bass sounds are - incorrectly I believe - regarded as not capable of localization).
The only problem with this method is the fact that some systems do not permit the LFE channel to carry full bandwidth (eg AC-3). In this case, evidently, height in the LFE channel simply won't work. In the case of DTS, the sixth channel can be full bandwidth, but many decoders roll it off. It may therefore be the case that G-format recordings for encoding with the two most common perceptual coding methods simply will not be able to include height.
This is not the case with DVD-A, with up to six full-bandwidth LPCM channels, or MLP, where there are at least six full-bandwidth channels available. You could either use the LFE-encoding technique or (with MLP) simply allocate another channel to height only. As it remains to be seen how many MLP decoders will actually allow you to handle more than six channels, the former technique is safer.
LFE.1 is restricted to around 120Hz so that leaves at least a good portion from slight above 120Hz with good steep crossover filter placed on LFE.1 end, and another one placed to where bass mid lows start from moving up though the mid range to high end.
I think this practice was done on Dolby 70mm prints with stereo split surrounds where one half is mono and the other stereo high frequency surrounds. Can’t find a diagram to how this was put together for that systems use, but I’m sure it’s easy.
If I placed a step crossover filter 100Hz or lower on the centre channel and messed around with it, I can make all the audio dialogue disappear with nothing except low frequency tones coming from the centre.
I can’t remember which film it was now??? That has an opening credits sequence where there is now and then a low frequency so low it sounds from the centre…what was it, think, think? I know! “Who’s That Girl” (1987).
I think subs lows should stay in the LCRS thou how many of us have large full spectrum matching loudspeakers in home at that doesn’t restrict us walking around the living room, without climbing over these speakers.
I’d say very few us! For me I have to compromise like many others like myself that have limited tight space!
The low tones have this crazy bass sound when watching a film or occasional stereo the tone tends to arrive differently from listening on headphones. I’ve heard this at the ABC screen 1 Bournemouth where the JBL stage channels 4675-A left and right produce this tone that’s not really felt at the seated location, not since the days of Earthquake sensurround! The tones arrive at different times or I’m located in spot in the middle where the tones are balanced equally, and they, have this tapping like sound on my eardrum, its kinder hard to describe.
Its like waving your hands around your ears you hear this flutter like sound, do it softly you’ll still hear it! Do it too fast you produce a windy like sound.
I’ll have to test this on spectrumlanb and see what the frequency graph produces?
Waving my hand fast then slowly just 1 inch away produced this frequency.
The drum bass beat on Titanic (1997) as Jack and Fabrizio run though the crowds of people on the dock beside the Titanic, the that tone produces this tapping like sound on the eardrum in the cinema via the JBL 4675-A stage speakers which is where most of the low end was coming from. Surprisingly its around the between the 50Hz and 80Hz range so now I know what to look for.
The scene where the water floods the boiler room in Titanic (1997) is at the wrong angle for the surrounds chapter 16, time 101min 24sec most of the water is at lower level in the frame then comes at the camera washing over the surrounds should really come from multiple angles of surround speakers located at floor level middle height wall level higher wall level height all around the rooms walls ceiling as well for when there’s water effects that come from above.
When it bursts in on the boiler room, it’s just a load random noise of sound on the surrounds that makes no sense. Some shots fit in the rest is just a waste of time on the mixers. Its still an okay mix petty 7.1 is only adding more speakers to the sidewalls, how sad.
There’s only so much the decoder can do for the surrounds input. Some sounds will be located to overhead thou sometimes it just doesn’t work out the way I expect it. The mix needs to be totally discrete with its own…
Left sidewall height
Left sidewall middle
Left sidewall bottom
Centre back height
Centre back middle
Centre back height
Right sidewall height
Right sidewall middle
Right sidewall bottom
Blow surround left
Below surround centre
Below surround right
Overhead surround left
Overhead surround centre
Overhead surround right
So that sounds for all surrounds can freely move around rather than restricting them just to the sidewalls.
That’s 15 channels for the surrounds.
I seem to recall around 1998 (during the opening of) The Peacemaker (1997) when I asked a projectionist “does that sound doesn’t make sense” this is when a train sound pan, moves from front to stereo surrounds. Our position was standing at the back of the auditorium while the surrounds where 2 feet above standing height level.
The sound should have really panned moved underneath to below surround speakers, since that is the angle the camera is looking at while starting at horizontal flat angle then moving up above as the train moves towards it, the train passes underneath! That is what you would hear on location the sound won’t come from above it would come from below.
Common front
1) Left
2) [Optional left centre for 70mm SDDS8]
3) Centre
4) [Optional right centre for 70mm SDDS8]
5) Right
No excuses for the need of 5-screen discrete.
Surround left sidewall
6) Left upper corner surround
[Optional centre phantom middle of wall with matrix decoding]
7) Left below corner surround
Surround right sidewall
8) Right upper corner surround
[Optional centre phantom middle of wall with matrix decoding]
9) Left below corner surround
Centre back surround
10) Upper corner back surround
[Optional centre phantom middle of wall with matrix decoding]
11) Below corner surround
Overhead surround
12) Left surround
[Optional centre phantom middle of ceiling with matrix decoding]
13) Right surround
Below surround (floor)
14) Left side floor
[Optional centre phantom middle of flooring with matrix decoding]
15) Right side floor
16) LFE.1
15.1
Now the 16 channels on Dolby 16channel can handle the needs of fuller (wrap-around surround) above, below and beyond….
Now while travelling around yesterday something also got me thinking. One was listening to overhead footsteps. They tend to click on point that I look towards upwards as some passengers have high heels and they tend to click, click. First step is like slightly in front above then moves to middle point as the legs stretch outwards and the foot comes down one, two, there, four and so on, and move behind whilst looking upwards and leaning turning my head, till the footsteps go silent.
So maybe a 9 channel overhead discrete or to cut corners a bit a, 6 channel overhead with matrix decoder placed between…
Left side ceiling
Left front overhead
[Optional matrix for centre]
Back overhead
Centre middle ceiling
Centre front overhead
[Optional matrix for centre]
Centre back overhead
Right side ceiling
Right front overhead
[Optional matrix for centre]
Back overhead
So with basic 6channles and matrix decoder plugged in it would give a centre sound so if there are footsteps running overhead they can crisscross from left side ceiling front over to centre middle ceiling then over to right rear overhead on the opposite side.
Only snag is the centre middle on each channel will be moderately active. If it was just stereo ceiling front to back there would be (centre phantom hanging in-between that would be bit foggy).
Fully discrete is the way to go but Dolby would be fresh out of channels on 16 in next to know time. It could still reach 16 but without below surround and side to side rear corners surround.
From 1993 to 2007 there have only been 99 SDDS8 releases for the cinema.
Full list SDDS6/8
http://www.sdds.com/
List of SDDS8 channel mixes with five stage channels and two surrounds one sub bass / 99 titles unless I miscounted.
Surf's Up Jun/07
Spider-Man 3
Ghost Rider
Open Season
Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby
The Da Vinci Code
RV
Fun with Dick and Jane
Zathura
The Legend of Zorro
Oliver Twist
Stealth
Ocean's Twelve
Criminal
Anacondas: The Hunt for the Blood Orchid
Spider Man 2
Big Fish
Underworld
Bad Boys II
Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines
Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle
Solaris
Stuart Little 2
Scooby-Doo
Spider-Man
The Time Machine
Black Hawk Down
Oceans 11
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone
Glitter
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
Pearl Harbor
A Knight's Tale
15 Minutes
All The Pretty Horses
Finding Forrester
Vertical Limit
The 6th Day
Charlie's Angels
Godzilla 2000
Hollow Man
The Perfect Storm
U-571
Whatever It Takes
Erin Brockovich
Girl Interrupted
Crazy in Alabama
Blue Streak
Star Wars: Episode One, The Phantom Menace
Apt Pupil
Out of Sight
Godzilla
Les Miserables
Replacement Killers
Starship Troopers
Seven Years In Tibet
Mastermind
Excess Baggage
Men In Black
Air Force One
My Best Fr iend’s Wedding
Con Air
The Second Jungle Book: Mowgli & Baloo
Addicted To Love
The Fifth Element
Anaconda
Das Boot: The Director’s Cut
Ghosts Of Mississippi
Fly Away Home
Matilda
The Fan
Alaska
Multiplicity
Mrs. Winterbourne
Race The Sun
From Dusk Till Dawn
Screamers
Sense & Sensibility
Dracula-Dead And Loving It
Never Talk To Strangers
Devil In A Blue Dress
Desperado
Mortal Kombat
The Net
First Knight
Judge Dredd
Johnny Mnemonic
Bad Boys
Hideaway
Legends Of The Fall
Immortal Beloved
Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein
Next Karate Kid
Blankman
City Slickers II: The Legend Of Curly’s Gold
Little Big League
Geronimo - An American Legend
In The Line Of Fire
Last Action Hero Jun/93
With the above list I kinder see the same thing with Dolby 7.1 very few Dolby channel releases happening over the years.
I also see the same with bluray unless its new purpose mixed and not some crappy re-mix of a classic 6track mixes crated for 70mm.
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