JBL Factory Center Speakers

[Rolf]

... you may hear dialogue level above a certain degree, what you won’t hear is some subtle sounds rustling of clothes or some footsteps, even breathing depending on the type of film.

According to the manual of my EAD processor every detail in the center is sent to L+R speaker in phantom mode. In fact they recommend phantom mode over the center setup because most people with larger L+R speakers can't find room for the center, and that is true in my case.

As Rob says: "The center should be able to out play the L+R speakers". So what I need is probably a 4350. No room for that. The size of my setup is (from L to R) 4343, PowerAmp on table, 52 inc "TV", PowerAmp on table and 4343. Only a few cm left. And yes, the "TV" is reaching from the floor and up. Over the "TV" there are shelves with other electronics. No room under or over it for a center.

[JBL 4645]

According to the manual of my EAD processor every detail in the center is sent to L+R speaker in phantom mode. In fact they recommend phantom mode over the center setup because most people with larger L+R speakers can't find room for the center, and that is true in my case.

As Rob says: "The center should be able to out play the L+R speakers". So what I need is probably a 4350. No room for that. The size of my setup is (from L to R) 4343, PowerAmp on table, 52 inc "TV", PowerAmp on table and 4343. Only a few cm left. And yes, the "TV" is reaching from the floor and up. Over the "TV" there are shelves with other electronics. No room under or over it for a center.

Rolf

Let’s see an up-to-date picture I mean a picture from today and lets see if there is room.


Edit:
I was thinking there’s KenWH and proud JBL owner who has some cinema PA speakers in his room and although last time we, were speaking to him, he had “hissing issues” LOL sure hope he got that sorted out in the end.

The centre channel is lying on its side and should be standing upright with the HF horn on top at the same height as the left and right otherwise you’ll; end up with dodgy timber issues. The horn is different not sure what model that is, but the left and right are JBL 2360-A.

[hjames]

Well, as I told TiDome in a PM yesterday, I DID win the auction for a Cherry LC2, its on the way. With any luck I'll be able to pull the EC25 and put that LC2 into place, so maybe this time next week I'll have a happier tale to tell about Center Channel dialog!
Like I said before, I'm just not going to find another 4341 for center channel use, so although it won't tonally match them, the LC2 will have to do!

Its a skinny looking box but I can't wall-mount it to the window, so hopefully it can sit on its side on the shelf over the TV where the EC25 used to sit.

The EC25 and the LC1 have been consistently disappointing performers, particularly in the midrange.

The LC1 will be better than the EC25, the EC35 will be better than the LC1, and the LC2 will be better than the EC35.

They still won't be exactly matched to your mains, but the dialog will be much improved and clearer. On scenes where sound travels across the front, you might notice a subtle shift in timbre as it passes through the center, but if the main objective is to improve dialog, the EC35 and LC2 are prime candidates.

[JBL 4645]

Nice going on the bidding Heather, didn’t they have two more of the same because three across the fronts would be nice.

Why not get JBL control 5 and gathering on the size of you’re room, I think they fit in nice and snug with three placed over the front and there magnetically shielded as well. eBay as quite lot of control 5 thou very few JBL control 10 and 12SR in fact nothing on those and if you could get JBL control 10 or 12SR placed over LCR, very nice.

http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=JBL+control+5&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270

[hjames]

I hear you, but If I was to downgrade my left and right to smaller speakers,
and if the point was to match the speakers across the front, I'd stay with the Studio L series ...
http://www.jbl.com/home/products/series.aspx?SerId=SLS

The L890s are the correct match for the LC2, not those Control 5s.

Nice going on the bidding Heather, didn’t they have two more of the same because three across the fronts would be nice.

Why not get JBL control 5 and gathering on the size of you’re room, I think they fit in nice and snug with three placed over the front and there magnetically shielded as well. eBay as quite lot of control 5 thou very few JBL control 10 and 12SR in fact nothing on those and if you could get JBL control 10 or 12SR placed over LCR, very nice.

http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=JBL+control+5&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270

[JBL 4645]

I can’t believe JBL would place the centre below the left and right LOL. These are the guys that put perfect sound to perfect picture and they stick the centre down by nearly a 15”. I’m only kidding. Also the centre isn’t the same as left and right or it might be the other-way-around. I guess JBL would have to send me some for close scrutiny.

The flat-screen should be raised and lowered alone with the LCR so that all LCR are the same height as I’m very picky on sound, sound comes first flat screen last.




I like the JBL L830 three across the front yes. bi-wireable should go fine with (Behringer DCX2496) for extra loudspeaker maximum protection.



GeneralMaximum Recommended Amplifier Power150WPower Handling (Continuous/Peak)75W/300WNominal Impedance8 OhmsSensitivity (2.83V/1m)90dBFrequency Response (±3dB)48Hz – 40kHzCrossover Frequencies2.5kHz, 20kHzUltrahigh-Frequency Driver3/4" (19mm) Mylar® dome, cast-aluminum chassis, mounted in a
Bi-Radial® hornHigh-Frequency Transducer1" (25mm) Pure-titanium dome in JBL EOS™ waveguide, cast-aluminum chassisLow-Frequency Transducer6" (150mm) PolyPlas™ cone with rubber surround, cast-aluminum chassis, HeatScape™ motor structure, Symmetrical Field Geometry™ (SFG™), oversized Kapton® voice coil, magnetic shorting ringMagnetically ShieldedYesBaffleLow-diffraction, IsoPower™ bafflePortFreeflow™, on rearNetworkStraight-Line Signal Path™ (SSP™)TerminalsGold-plated, 5-way binding posts, bi-wirableDimensions (H x W x D)15-1/4" x 8-3/4" x 12-3/4" (385mm x 222mm x 320mm)Weight per Speaker22 lb (10kg)GeneralPair-packed

A dozen x8 JBL L8400P subs placed below the screen fronts in close proximity (coupled) that should give you a mini Empire in the front room.


GeneralAmplifier Power (RMS)600 WattsPeak Dynamic Power1200 Watts;
the Peak Dynamic Power is measured by recording the highest peak-to-center voltage produced by the power amplifier with its limiters disabled, across the output of a resistive load equal to minimum impedance of the transducer, using a 50Hz sine wave burst, 3 cycles on, 17 cycles off.Bass Driver12" (300mm) PolyPlas™cones with rubber surround, cast-aluminum chassis, HeatScape™ motor structure, Symmetrical Field Geometry™ (SFG™), oversized fiberglass voice coil, magnetic shorting ringFrequency Response (–3dB)22Hz – Low-pass crossover frequencyLow-Pass Crossover Frequencies50Hz – 150Hz, continuously adjustable (150Hz when using speaker-level connection)InputsGold-plated 5-way binding-post speaker-level; left and right line-level, switchable to LFEOutputsGold-plated, 5-way binding-post speaker-levelEnclosure DesignSealedBaffleLow-diffraction, IsoPower™Dimensions (H x W x D)16-1/2" (15-1/2" without feet) x 15-1/2" x 15-1/2"
(419mm [394mm without feet] x 394mm x 394mm)Weight per Speaker58 lb (26.4kg)


Last but not least x12 L820 for the ultimate surround channel wrap-around with no compromises.


GeneralMaximum Recommended Amplifier Power150WPower Handling (Continuous/Peak)75W/300WNominal Impedance8 OhmsSensitivity (2.83V/1m)90dBFrequency Response (±3dB)55Hz – 40kHzCrossover Frequencies600Hz, 3.5kHz, 20kHzUltrahigh-Frequency Driver3/4" (19mm) Mylar® dome, cast-aluminum chassis, mounted in a
Bi-Radial® hornHigh-Frequency Transducer1" (25mm) Pure-titanium dome in JBL EOS™ waveguide, cast-aluminum chassisMidrange Transducer4" (100mm) PolyPlas™ cone with rubber surround, cast-aluminum chassis, HeatScape™ motor structureMagnetically ShieldedYesLow-Frequency Transducer6" (150mm) PolyPlas™ cone with rubber surround, cast-aluminum chassis, HeatScape™ motor structure, Symmetrical Field Geometry™ (SFG™), oversized Kapton® voice coil, magnetic shorting ringBaffleLow-diffraction, IsoPower™ bafflePortSealed enclosureNetworkStraight-Line Signal Path™ (SSP™)TerminalsGold-plated, 5-way binding posts, bi-wirableDimensions (H x W x D)12-1/4" x 15-1/2" x 5" (311mm x 391mm x 127mm)Weight per Speaker19 lb (8.6kg)GeneralWall-mount hardware included; wall- or corner-mount

[hjames]

I can’t believe JBL would place the centre below the left and right LOL. These are the guys that put perfect sound to perfect picture and they stick the centre down by nearly a 15”. I’m only kidding. Also the centre isn’t the same as left and right or it might be the other-way-around. I guess JBL would have to send me some for close scrutiny.

The flat-screen should be raised and lowered alone with the LCR so that all LCR are the same height as I’m very picky on sound, sound comes first, flat screen last.

Actually, you are the Movie Theatre guy ... and from your pictures I've seen that theatres put speakers BEHIND the screen.
You don't own a projector set or flat screen in your home, do you?
I don't have a projection screen to mount speakers behind in my home ...
But I'm not going to be bolting flat box speakers to the wall either - I think that looks, well ... terrible.

[JBL 4645]

Actually, you are the Movie Theatre guy ... and from your pictures I've seen that theatres put speakers BEHIND the screen.
You don't own a projector set or flat screen in your home, do you?
I don't have a projection screen to mount speakers behind in my home ...
But I'm not going to be bolting flat box speakers to the wall either - I think that looks, well ... terrible.

Yes, bolting them up does look dreadful, but you don’t what the speaker to move or have the tendency to move after hours and days of calibration and alignment.

I wouldn’t touch a flat-screen with 10 foot barge pole. However thou a video projector yes and if I can stay focused this summer and save-up a few £300.00 I can pick a brand new one up in the box.

Have a gander at this. I was just toying around with the idea because I like the specifications on the above JBL L series.

I would use a very careful individual blend of the LCRS mixed into the sub bass arrays with independent control of each of the LCRS channels, non of this (prefixed) bass manger nonsense, individual control!

The LFE.1 will be blended in, in the same way with individual control!

Or the top left and right subs used for left and right sub bass extension. The centre channel using the two middle top, rows of subs for sub bass extension. The lower four subs used for LFE.1 only.

Although it may be wise to go with plan A because some tones may have a few nulls or dips at certain frequencies from 20Hz to 120Hz that may need addressing with multiple parametric equalization

[JBL 4645]

I notice it looks like 8 JBL L8400P subs ... did you price those puppies yet?

Seems to me when TiDome recommended them in another thread last week they retail for $999 or so ...

if you're just blowing smoke like that, you may as well Array series for the fronts, long as its monopoly money anyway!

Well I think a cheep piece of rope would suffice a $£grand each! Okay I might have overstepped myself, this time, but the idea isn’t bad.

But consider this a cinema installation would be passive 18” sub and it needs an active loudspeaker management crossover and amplifier to run it, so the cost will be just a bit more for the original cinema version and a considerable lot less for the home cinema version. So 8k isn’t too bad unless you won a small $50k on the national lottery.

But even with 50k and bit of hard looking around the cinema suppliers you could get the real deal JBL cinema PA second-hand as there are some out there! Get the amplifiers brand new because they don’t cost too much depending on the make and model. Then add the dbx4800 only a few would be needed and a few 18” subs second-hand and amps for them brand new, surrounds second-hand and amplifiers band new.

You may have a few grand leftover from 50k for small video projector and you’re sorted.

Sorry! Make that around 100k I think you’ll be almost bone-dry by the time you’ve got three screen speakers a few subs and a few amplifiers and dbx4800. Unless, you can get this, all off the back of lorry for 50k.

[hjames]

$8,000 worth of subs is nuts - I'm here for the music primarily and the cinema, while fun, is secondary. Not trying to build a pro theatre in my little space. All I wanted was to improve the DIALOG (vocal range) in my center channel - the rest of this discussion is WAY over the top.

Well I think a cheep piece of rope would suffice a $£grand each! Okay I might have overstepped myself, this time, but the idea isn’t bad.

But consider this a cinema installation would be passive 18” sub and it needs an active loudspeaker management crossover and amplifier to run it, so the cost will be just a bit more for the original cinema version and a considerable lot less for the home cinema version. So $8k isn’t too bad unless you won a small $50k on the national lottery.

[JBL 4645]

$8,000 worth of subs is nuts - I'm here for the music primarily and the cinema, while fun, is secondary. Not trying to build a pro theatre in my little space. All I wanted was to improve the DIALOG (vocal range) in my center channel - the rest of this discussion is WAY over the top.
(But I do already have a pair of JBL amps running the pro monitors)

Of course, if you are aspiring to Pro theatres ... have you ever seen an IMAX film in an IMAX theatre? Makes a 70mm print look like low-res junk ...

Emma called for reservations yesterday - we have reservations to see "The Dark Knight" next week in IMAX at the UDVAR-HAZY branch of the Smithsonian National Air & Space Museum

http://www.nasm.si.edu/museum/udvarhazy/index.cfm
http://www.nasm.si.edu/visit/theaters/uhc/

http://www.imax.com/ImaxWeb/static/s...ver/index.html

THAT ought to rattle some fillings

Take along you’re camera to the IMAX and get some pictures of cinema inside the auditorium after you’ve both seen the film. I’d like to see what it looks like inside and outside. Expect SPL db levels of around 120dbc because that’s what I measured at the controversial (Sheridan IMAX head-offices Ireland) at Bournemouth seafront that is now been closed since 2005 it opened to poor response around 2000 or was it 2001 it should have opened in 1999 but fell so far behind schedule and with towns folks getting fanged to the teeth with the unsightly building that was labelled the “IMAX building”.

It was poor management that ran the site into the ground based both on site and at head-office because they didn’t want to play ball with the (Bournemouth council) and when IMAX bullshited the public back in 2005 saying there "closing down for a re-fit" in the local paper and on the front doors at the site, I knew it was bullshit, because this was brand new complex that didn’t need any major re-fit and even minor re-fit after-hours would be done over-night.

If you can buy a cheep SPL db metre thou I would imagine you have one already, and if so take it along and sneak it out and hold it low to the lap and the screen light should be just enough to see the needle and the peak levels of the film in the IMAX. I used mine all times well, almost and peaks on Cyber World 3-D was 120db Haunted Castle 3-D 120db.

A few others where slightly less I still have the IMAX tickets and I’m not sure if I wrote a small brief comment on the back of the tickets I’ll have to fish them out and have look, at the back.

You and Emma enjoy the dark knight crusaded battling the Joker.

IMAX uses the Sonics point source thou there was one IMAX cinema that I was looking at somewhere on the internet that uses JBL.

[jblsound]

I can’t believe JBL would place the centre below the left and right LOL. These are the guys that put perfect sound to perfect picture and they stick the centre down by nearly a 15”. I’m only kidding. Also the centre isn’t the same as left and right or it might be the other-way-around. I guess JBL would have to send me some for close scrutiny.

The flat-screen should be raised and lowered alone with the LCR so that all LCR are the same height as I’m very picky on sound, sound comes first flat screen last.

We all know that the best front end is having identical LCRs and at the same height. But its much better to have the center below the screen than above. And as long as the elevation of the center tweeter is within 12~18" of the main's tweeters all is good.
That is how I have my 3 PT800 LCRs and I add about 9" more, in the center speaker setup menu, than the real distance from the center to the seat. That makes the center sound as if its coming from the center of the screen.
If someone did have the center above the screen, then setting the distance shorter than actual would work.

[JBL 4645]

We all know that the best front end is having identical LCRs and at the same height. But its much better to have the center below the screen than above. And as long as the elevation of the center tweeter is within 12~18" of the main's tweeters all is good.
That is how I have my 3 PT800 LCRs and I add about 9" more, in the center speaker setup menu, than the real distance from the center to the seat. That makes the center sound as if its coming from the center of the screen.
If someone did have the center above the screen, then setting the distance shorter than actual would work.

Then you start playing around with the term (psychoacoustics) the way we perceive sound.

Delaying setting I have my centre with long delay and I’m not going to talk about the politics of the delay time setting. I’ve set it to work with LCR but with half-pan sounds that have half the sound in the centre and half on the left and right and it works fine.

Hard pans doesn’t really matter it’s the half pans that I’m more concerned about and it sounds good in the two seat sofa it took a it doing with the DCX2496 a bit of trail and error to make it work.

[robertbartsch]

...every center channel speaker I have had (new JBL, Klipsch, etc) has been a huge dissapointment for me - can;t hear voices clearly.

I pulled a center klipsch recenty from one HT in our house and replaced it with an Altec 511 horn and compression driver...... VAST improvement....voices very clear now!

It needs another driver to help down low, but overall, I think I am on the right track...

[Zilch]

Heather KNOWS what to do; she just doesn't want to think about it....