E2 clone

[Ian Mackenzie]

I found this article this afternoon.

http://www.genelec.com/learning-cent...tutorials/dcw/

One of the dumb ass problems with these larger than life horns is the time displacement from the compression driver to the woofer.

The real PITA about it is how to fix the problem. The above article provide a neato way of doing that and some useful spin offs like controlling diffraction and adding some useful gain.

Below is something I may introduce into my project in so far as the woofer goes. Its a shallow 15" octagonal entry throat and 5.75 inches deep that minimizes time synchronization problems with the high frequency horn (Gain is about +3.5 db)

I guess I will have to call this my JBL Suma now.

Ian

[Robh3606]

Hello 4315B

So how do you like that waveguide?? I have been considering trying a pair. I like the way your towers look.

Hello Ian

Glad to see you are working in this direction. I want to try a 2 way as well. Maybe the other waveguide can get low enough to work with an Le-14H-3



Rob

[Skywave-Rider]

Here's a quick snap of my 12-inch "2-way". I'm not real big on photos of works in progress, they are a long way from being done. Dual 1200FE-12's and a PT-F95HF with 435BE.

Curious as to whether or not that is a 2.5 way design?
And is that a sealed cabinet?

[4313B]

So how do you like that waveguide?? I have been considering trying a pair. I like the way your towers look.

Thanks, I'll let you know what I really think about the waveguides after I live with them for awhile.

Curious as to whether or not that is a 2.5 way design?
And is that a sealed cabinet?

It can be run as a 2-way or 2-1/2 way and it is vented (4 port x 5-1/4 duct).

[Skywave-Rider]

Thanks, I'll let you know what I really think about the waveguides after I live with them for awhile.It can be run as a 2-way or 2-1/2 way and it is vented (4 port x 5-1/4 duct).

Thanks; it's very interesting. I've been thinking about whether or not 2.5 can work in a sealed box.

Please keep us updated, that looks formidable!

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hello Ian

Glad to see you are working in this direction. I want to try a 2 way as well. Maybe the other waveguide can get low enough to work with an Le-14H-3

Rob

I am fairly open minded about my options at the moment.

Ian

[Hoerninger]

Below is something I may introduce into my project in so far as the woofer goes. Its a shallow 15" octagonal entry throat and 5.75 inches deep that minimizes time synchronization problems with the high frequency horn (Gain is about +3.5 db)

I guess I will have to call this my JBL Suma now.

It is about time for the JBL Suma , the first speaker I remember with a waveguide was around 1975, an ISOPHON dome speaker.

The above mentioned wave guide will produce some trouble when implementing:
It will only work for frequencies about an octave below were the speaker starts beaming for its own. It is debatable whether it works up to about 800 Hz. This implies that the deviding network will eventually have to attenuate in a passband for the woofer.
Manageable as a whole but complicated.

The usage of a waveguide is a good approach for controlling power distribution. But it works only fine down to a lower frequency which is correlated with the mouth opening.

What about an electronic time delay?
__________
Peter

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Peter,

Stop spoiling all the fun!

http://www.ddshorns.com/catalog.php?page=DVB15H

(Many woofers in this application have a rising response with frequency so perhaps its a good thing)


I am just throwing up examples of certain approaches at this point.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing without constructing and measuring a working example...particulary when it comes to horns.

As I said I prefer to be open minded otherwise I would never entertain the idea of using a 12 or 15 inch driver up to 800 hertz.

None of the George Augsurger monitors using the Hartsfield horn were ever time aligned so I dont think its anything to get too excited about.GTTThye They do George Augspurger,eorGeorge Augsperger ge Augsperger

[Zilch]

2352 (rear) is still my favorite. "Transcendent," I have called it, on several occasions here. The WAF issue is major, though.

The little-known 2381 (front) comes in close in performance with more manageable dimensions:



My dual-woofs using PT-F95HF have LE14H-1s, presently, and 2452H-SL HF drivers:



Single-woof version is adaptive reuse of S99 Athenas:



I've never considered deep horns a problem. Worst case, I delay the woofer....

[4313B]

yeah... that was at least part of why that exercise stalled. Acceptable visual
integration will require some creativity (or redefinition of "acceptable")

Have you thought of cloning the H9800 horn?

2352 (rear) is still my favorite. "Transcendent," I have called it, on several occasions here. The WAF issue is major, though.

What about your H4338 horns? Those do look nice.

[Zilch]

What about your H4338 horns? Those do look nice.

Yes, of course, and I very much like the H4348 horns, which Ian has heard and I believe likes, as well.

There just seems to be more benefit for everyone to be working through the theory and application details of components that are more available here. If a $9.90 waveguide can kick up the performance level of a system significantly, that warrants more attention, in my view, as it has more general applicability than better components nobody can get.

I'm very interested in how well you've been able to make PT-F95HF work with 435Be/2435HPL, for example, as I haven't successfully made that happen, which is why I primarily use BMS 4555 or 2452H-SL with them....

[grumpy]

Have you thought of cloning the H9800 horn?

As well as the E2 horn (which looks nice hovering over dual 15s), yes.
Hasn't the H9800 horn been 'cloned' already (e.g., Matsj's nice project that's
currently in progress)?

I have what I need to do the E2 bendy-board part (vertical wall), others here
have gone quite bit further, but it is not my project to elaborate on...
checking on a CNC-mill shop that I might have an inside connection to.

If I can't sort out the aesthetics, it'll have to be the "E2-Brute"

[Ian Mackenzie]

In the case of the 2352 I would call it the "Runt" but I think someone has used that for another system .....LOL

[Zilch]

In the case of the 2352 I would call it the "Runt" but I think someone has used that for another system .....LOL

2352 is a "Mid-Format" horn, according to JBL....

[4313B]

There just seems to be more benefit for everyone to be working through the theory and application details of components that are more available here. If a $9.90 waveguide can kick up the performance level of a system significantly, that warrants more attention, in my view, as it has more general applicability than better components nobody can get.

Zilch, these guys can clone anything they desire. If they want K2 or E2 horns then they'll make them.

As well as the E2 horn (which looks nice hovering over dual 15s), yes.
Hasn't the H9800 horn been 'cloned' already (e.g., Matsj's nice project that's
currently in progress)?

Yeah, Mr. Widget had all the H9800 measurements and I think another forum member has the H4338 measurements.

I'm very interested in how well you've been able to make PT-F95HF work with 435Be/2435HPL, for example, as I haven't successfully made that happen, which is why I primarily use BMS 4555 or 2452H-SL with them....

Like I posted above, I like the waveguide better than the H5800 horn. Are you basing your lack of success with the PT-F95HF and 2435HPL on your posted graphs? The 2452H-SL and waveguide is a very nice combination.

2352 is a "Med Format" horn, according to JBL....

It is a JBL Pro SR product... just use it and hide it behind a grille. No one needs to actually see it.